Final thoughts on this "preteaming"

[Q-veta]

You and duck think that. Ugri said it because of you being retarded and actually trying to preteam because you thought I did. Too bad you got such a light punishment for it.

[FML|Mage]

Poll needs another option.  Something to the effect of no I don't think Eshan is a cheater, but yes I do think he was in the wrong here.  You said something earlier to the effect of I had good intentions so it doesn't matter that I did things wrong.  That's where the heart of the matter lies I believe, because it is in no way correct.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions as the cliche goes.

In what world would you believe that it's going to lead to anything good to do this?  It was one of the least thought out things that I have ever seen, and only had the potential to lead problems. 

The punishment is fine I think, though I disagreed when it was a ban for you.  I think that would have been too far.  Frankly though, you're acting like an immature brat right now.  When you were making coherent arguments in the banhammer thread (and it looked like you were going to be banned) you did a very good job of being persuasive and making your case.  I think it's part of what convinced some of the admins to change their decision.  Now though you look like a petulant 4 year old.  You got your way and weren't banned, deal with what you've got now.  If you win out the odds are you'll make the semis. 

 

[Peregrine]

You say i did wrong, but you say I didnt cheat. So how did we do something wrong, if we didnt cheat? Cheating is what is wrong. The messages that were sent are not wrong by themselves, unless they were backed up by actual cheating. Plus the messages were sent for a completely different reason - to try and weed out actual preteamers. Instead I got accused of it myself.

That is, essentially, my argument, and yes I got mad earlier (and got high as hell) because I eventually grew too frustrated as they kept repeating the punishment even though I believe they know I did nothing wrong, and meant nothing wrong. In fact I meant to help. So thats why I'm mad, practicemage. I'm not a cheater, and I didn't 'attempt' to cheat either. I just had a plan, that was a bad plan, to try and catch preteamers. Now I've been punished for that.

[Q-veta]

Has it ever occurred to you that you may be too stupid to understand what you did and that's why everyone's disagreeing with you?

[FML|Mage]

Thanks for the rational argument, I appreciate that you're trying to look at this objectively.  I don't think you cheated in the game (though I don't really know because there is a lot of it that I can't watch.)  You don't seem like a cheater to me from the little I know of you.  That being said, you can still be in the wrong and break the rules (which I suppose is technically cheating, but I still don't really think of you as a cheater.) 

The problem I see is that it's not your role to do this.  If you had talked it over with one of the admins, gotten there approval (as opposed to just telling Darkness you were doing it), and gone ahead with it it would be a different ball game.  I still wouldn't agree with it because it seems very similar to entrapment, but I think your reaction would be more understandable. 

To me this seems very similar to civilians trying to get justice.  Maybe they do have the best of intentions, but it's still not done and when it is there's a punishment for it.  What if every player tried to do what you tried to do?  Would that make this league better, or just more chaotic and most likely lead to its downfall?  If the former then we'll merely have to disagree.  If the latter then what is it that gave you the authority and the specialty to be the one to do it?

[Ugrilainen]

what with the mass surveys now on this website

[FML|Renaud]

Well, Eshan is part of the masses, and everyone has the same opinion as him, so he wants to show this to us. ^^

Now~ for the fun responses~

It's funny you keep on mentionning that Worp's pride wouldn't allow him to change his mind, since he unbanned you (o yeah... you forgot that... can't be because ugri that saved your ass, he was already gone at this point. It certainly can't be me, since i hate you. And it definitively can't be darkness, since he would never go against me and worp, since hes the new guy right?)

Also your argument that I shouldn't judge you because I'm biased with hate; fair enough, lets remove everything i know about you and then judge!
then your next argument "You guys know me! I would never seriously do that!"
...
So do you want us to base are decision on the fact we know you, or simply on logic and rules?

:/

[FML|WorpeX]

lol. This thread is funny. Yes, I do have a lot of pride for what I do. No, I don't really play much wc3 anymore now that i'm not part of the league. This league isn't a democracy and it never will be. However, almost every decision that is made follows the rulebook - not emotions or biases. FML has and will always consider pre-teaming to be a form of cheating. We followed the rulebook to the letter by banning you for doing it. Simple as that.

The only thing we didn't follow the rules for was showing mercy and unbanning you and TrL. This was the only decision in recent history that we've made based on bias and our own opinions. I am sorry that you are ungrateful about this and that you feel the need to protest so feverishly. If you would like, we can ban you again.

[Ugrilainen]

Alpacino just told me eshan was an honest nice guy and should be trusted!

[hydro]

You say i did wrong, but you say I didnt cheat. So how did we do something wrong, if we didnt cheat? Cheating is what is wrong. The messages that were sent are not wrong by themselves, unless they were backed up by actual cheating. Plus the messages were sent for a completely different reason - to try and weed out actual preteamers. Instead I got accused of it myself.

That is, essentially, my argument, and yes I got mad earlier (and got high as hell) because I eventually grew too frustrated as they kept repeating the punishment even though I believe they know I did nothing wrong, and meant nothing wrong. In fact I meant to help. So thats why I'm mad, practicemage. I'm not a cheater, and I didn't 'attempt' to cheat either. I just had a plan, that was a bad plan, to try and catch preteamers. Now I've been punished for that.

Youre a fucking idiot and you caused all of this by trying to act smart

Also what Q-veta said

[Lightweight!]

Worpex i dont even know what to say. You dont play this game, you just run this league. And despite all the good you have done this shit is fucking pathetic. You let your pride and ego get in the way of good decisions. This league is for the players and we shouldnt have three admins behind closed doors making decisions halfly on their own opinions, emotions and fucking biases like Renaud.

I will do whatever master worpex says  .
Seems to be human nature not beeing grateful. I don't expect that from a guy that is banned and has anger inside, but im sure we have many players that are thankfull that we have a league running on a game we like who dont insult the people who run this volentarily. Nobody is perfect and admins make mistakes, but reading your comments doesnt let it look like a mistake.

Oh, and one thing: This is not a democracy and shouldnt be. Im happy there is a small circle making important decisions. You can't run a league like this by asking everyone if you can fart.

[rsm]

Damn this reminds me of the team league days where vVv won every league while every single other team cried about us maphacking and venthacking. Now if they would of just asked us if we skype hacked.... we would of confessed...

[Kruppe]

Damn this reminds me of the team league days where vVv won every league while every single other team cried about us maphacking and venthacking. Now if they would of just asked us if we skype hacked.... we would of confessed...

Sorry, but you are really someone that makes this league richer.

NOT.

Immediate ban please.

If I would like to play versus players like you I would play ladder, not FML.

[Rain]

Damn this reminds me of the team league days where vVv won every league while every single other team cried about us maphacking and venthacking. Now if they would of just asked us if we skype hacked.... we would of confessed...

Sorry, but you are really someone that makes this league richer.

NOT.

Immediate ban please.

If I would like to play versus players like you I would play ladder, not FML.

I would like to remind you that me and starshaped skype too. Every game, all the time.

[Lightweight!]

Somehow i don't think that you are talking about any ingame details, because its not necessary at your skill levels