Theorycraft

[Nooblex]

So since the strategy section is essentially dead, let's get get some ideas going. Post anything you've tried or think is worth trying regarding strategy, such as odd build orders, creeping patterns, hero combos, counters, etc.

I realize that most things have already been tried in FFA, but there's always a little room for strategies to evolve, whether it's just a trick on a certain map (i.e. creeping fountains for tomes with BM on Deathrose) or something more substantial.

I'll start.

1. NE Hero Combo: BM/Panda/Kotg

I've messed around with this combo a little bit and it shows some promise. I realize that BM is generally considered useless in FFA, but in this case I think he's somewhat viable. Summons provide good tier 1 scouting and let you creep quickly. They're also useful vs magic immune heroes and are supprisingly effective in hero vs hero battles. Maybe not as strong as a few of the top elf combos, but certainly worth experimenting with.

2. UD Build Order

I mentioned this in my guide. Essentially you’re getting a tavern hero (presumably DR) at about the same time you’d normally get a late UD hero, but you’re able to tech before the 2:00 minute mark and still expand quickly. If you want to use a combo like DR/DK/Lich, this build is awesome on maps like goldrush and twilight.

1.   Acolytes to gold, Ghoul to wood
2.   Queue up 2 Acos and build a Crypt and a second Necropolis
3.   When your fifth Aco completes train a sixth
4.   As soon as your sixth Aco comes out, use it to scout both positions next to you before sending it to the Tavern
5.   Tech when resources allow
6.   Build an Altar as soon as you have enough wood and keep pumping ghouls
7.   Build a second Ziggurat when resources allow
8.   Build a Tomb of Relics
9.   Your Aco should reach the Tavern before your Altar finishes
10.   Use your sixth Aco to expand, making Acos from your second Necropolis.


Feel free to post your own theorycraft or lightly-tested-craftl, or discuss what's already been posted.

:)

[rygorych]

My input for other race's item strat:

Offer a trade for items in chat, e.g. Orb for a Staff. If they agree, drop it in their base, they drop theirs in yours. If they trick you, suicide. If they do it fair, win-win. Orcs with hu staffs? Hu with purge orbs?

Kek.

Seriously, anyone who plays vs me, feel free to ask, we can deal (I hope this isn't considered preteaming... shouldn't be... cause after I pick up your item, I'll be all over you, using your own item.... kekeke).

[L77]

I've been trying AM/Panda/Pal lately, but with mixed results.  So much of the human's strength comes from the mk, and I'm always hesitant to go without brill on non-market/fountain maps.

[rygorych]

l77, if you went naga/firelord/bm HU would still be OP comparing to UD and NE

[Nooblex]

Imo AM/Panda/Pal is solid vs non-BM orcs and good vs NE unless they get starfall. Kind of need MK vs UD and other HUs though.

[FML|Renaud]

I know I've said it a few time but I'll say it again to make sure I eventually see it in a game!

AMS Garg >>> Prebuffed orcs in a straight up battle (unless they are all ground, then you are fucked)

I remember testing this (in theorycraft) vs dase, managed to win vs All bats, all Wyv, a couple of mixes of bats/wyv (but I din't even manage to kill 1 hh of his ground army T_T)
And this was vs the microless me (I was worst back then!)  And I din't even have destro to devour, just some straight up battle, no nuke and run.

HOWEVER (T_T this had to be here!)  every time I tried this, I had the problem of not being able to do anything vs a towered main :( And I get rapped as soon as I don't prebuff, and since they also have a speed aura, some orc just ran arround waiting for AMS to go off :(

(ps: AMS does not block ALL bat damage, it only blocks 300 damage.... It's not much, but if you combine that with the staff, you are actually able to have an army after the waves of bats (you should still stone form vs mass bats... stone form does not remove AMS, and like wise spiritwalker are not able to dispel it)

[L77]

UD is tricky when they use AMS, luckily not many do.  I've found that ud either runs me over or vice versa, not much in between.  Good sleep usage + AMS + good destro usage is just deadly.

[FML|Renaud]

awwww UD, my first ffa race in tft.  I always wants to go back to it, but I hate how they have almost no scouting/tower killer/healing

[L77]

That was my first ffa race, too!

[rygorych]

awwww UD, my first ffa race in tft.  I always wants to go back to it, but I hate how they have almost no scouting/tower killer/healing

Possess a peon or peasant. Problem solved.

[Slythe]

Imo AM/Panda/Pal is solid vs non-BM orcs and good vs NE unless they get starfall. Kind of need MK vs UD and other HUs though.

i think a mk, especially in humanmirror is a bit overrated ( the focus power u have, gets denied through the paladin anyways ). mix in a bloodmage/panda/alchi or even a dr  instead the mk or the am can be very effective as i found out in several games.

on the other hand i also just like the chance of easy kills that a mk can provide u, also with avatar u don´t need to worry much about him getting slayed, of course. also the lack of interrupting channeling spells can be very annoying and costful.

[FML|Renaud]

Btw way back when, when I was annoyed that everyone always complained about hu being a tower/tank passive race, I started to go BloodMage/Panda/Pitlord mass gryph (din't made any towers... those crap slows down my tech/gryphs amount!)

Could pretty much kill anything instantly with Banish + Gryph
Gryph survived pretty well with the 80% miss and -50% dmg
And towers/tanks/ground armies went down like flies to Flamestrike/Bof/Rof

But then players with "ffa sense" din't meet up to fight, they would harrass my expo/main, forcing me to start building towers.  Ppl would hit and run, and w/o any form of stun it was annoying as hell so I got an MK.  And then I realized that pala's aura was almost as good as howl, but also protected vs spells.  Finally, having lost the panda and the pl, I had to compensate for my lack of AA, and building killing, so I had to add some tanks.  And in the end, BM was pretty much useless in my new army so I got an alch.

Players like ebo pushed me to stop cheesing, and then they drove me into a corner until I went back to it!  Oh the irony

[ReFlekKt]

Hi guys,

I mentioned a piece of theorycraft (or only theorycrap perhaps) on the wcreplays forums a few weeks back and was wondering what you all would think of it here. I haven't posted or visited here in a while and the only other time of any significance that I did was with another questionable piece of theorycraft as far as allowing pm and preteaming in FML, but be that as it may I assure you that these are not attempts to troll.

Someone (for the umpteenth time) brought up the huge weakness undead suffers as far as base racing in FFA, and I suggested replacing ziggurats with necropolises (or necropolii to some =) as the game progresses, or beginning with necropolises instead of ziggurats in the first place, and building them significantly spaced apart, perhaps as far apart as 4-5 necropolises worth but at least 2 necropolises worth.

It didn't occur to me to specify at that time the idea of using the necropolises as a perimeter around your base, not only for an advance warning but also to synergize with the fact that the standard undead army is built for speed and hit and runs, and great at nuking single units, and being able to TP to multiple positions, some of them perhaps not on-screen and perhaps not during daytime, whereby you can catch your opponent out of position, is a huge advantage to any army.

Necropolises are much cheaper to build compared to upgraded zigs and can be built anywhere. An undead player able to keep their army alive (which shouldn't be too hard against armies designed to kill buildings), and which can rely on a new abundance of opportunities to out-position incoming armies could I think turn the base race against undead into the more costly option it ought to be.

Finally, tanks and chims are slow. Spacing out your buildings means those units need to cover that much more ground to do their work, giving you more time to respond and/or force a TP. Also, you would be fighting on blight more often, insofar as a larger space is occupied (at one time or another) by undead buildings.

Any thoughts FFA players of all skill levels and/or fans? I personally prefer playing orc and don't have the time to play as often as I like so I think it unlikely (though not out of the question) that I'll ever do anymore than theorycraft on this subject. I would however love to hear about anyone's results while utilizing such a strategy.

[FML|Renaud]

I don't know about making only necropolis, but XX was very successful with doing a lot of them, and fewer zig

He used it mainly for wood though
-necropolis don't cost wood
-necropolis next to wood for faster gathering

I think it could be worth trying it!

[ReFlekKt]

I don't know about making only necropolis, but XX was very successful with doing a lot of them, and fewer zig

He used it mainly for wood though
-necropolis don't cost wood
-necropolis next to wood for faster gathering

I think it could be worth trying it!

Ah that is good to hear, I'm glad you think it not crazy! And those are great reasons to forgo zigs for necropolises!