Suggestions for season 12!

[FML|Renaud]

Resolving a tie is very simple:

Throw a dice.

HA! It was part of my suggestions for tie breakers, but we decided not to use that one :D

[Lightweight!]

@Ugri: Cool that you like my league system. I actually agree in every point except the feeding thing. Renaud and you always bring up that argument with plush and the water elements. I stay at the point that i think it is a big manipulation and betraying the 3rd.

@Ebo: I totally agree that we should have a system that rewards the goal to play for winning a game everytime. I think this is the biggest area that could be improved because i don't want to see any players run around and playing for the 3rd place anymore.

Throwing a dice and in same breath Worpex account number below the announcement. 

[rygorych]

Yep. Tiebreaking rules only encourage not playing for the win, when applicable.

If I know that there is a tiebreaking rule that will rule in my favor for whatever reason, there, bam, I don't need to play for the win.

If I know there is no tiebreaking rule, and it will be decided by dice, I'll sure as hell play to win, because otherwise I risk it all due to dice luck.

It's one thing if admins say that they want to clearly define that 4th place is worse than 3rd... Then fine, it's your league, you make the rules. But if 4th vs 4rd differentiation exists only to break ties... I don't see why. A winner is a winner. A loser is a loser, 2nd 3rd or 4th - doesn't matter.

[Ugrilainen]

@Ugri: Cool that you like my league system.

I dont really like you calling this "your league system" since I proposed that on january 12th and even told you so in my post. You were there when I wrote this in the chatbox so you pretty much took it from me and posted it before I even had the chance after you saw my ffareplays.com announcement 

Lightweight: Searching FFA on Azeroth, if you want to kick my ass you can join me ;)
12 Jan 12, 05:23 PM
WorpeX: I don't like the NBA, so I can't say, but in the NFL the top seeds get a bye to the second round of the playoffs. which I prefer. Everyone knows that FFA has a large foot planted into "luck" as far as winning goes.
12 Jan 12, 05:05 PM
ugri: top seed gets easier games, like in the nba
12 Jan 12, 04:57 PM
WorpeX: It makes the end of the regular season pointless though, unless your on the border of 16th. the high level players don't compete for anything except map choice which honestly, most players don't care about in FFA.
12 Jan 12, 04:57 PM
ugri: then qll 4 spots in finqals have to be fought for! more live and die games again!
12 Jan 12, 04:57 PM
ugri: thks slythe! more ppl engaged in plqyoff = more live or die gqmes
12 Jan 12, 04:42 PM
Slythe: ugris latest comment i like,
12 Jan 12, 04:39 PM
WorpeX: maybe 6 player too just to piss people off.
12 Jan 12, 04:38 PM
WorpeX: We're doing KoFFA next season damnit. 4player FFA, 8 player FFA and 12 player FFA.
12 Jan 12, 04:38 PM
WorpeX: @Wreck: KoFFA.
12 Jan 12, 04:09 PM
ugri: 4 rounds, 16 players in playoff, 4 winners in final
12 Jan 12, 04:08 PM
ugri: next season, lets do my system : no pointless game at all[/color]

So yeah I know I make a big deal but I dont like being plagiarized and then thanked to agree on what I said 2 weeks ago.

[rygorych]

Lawsuit incoming...

[Ugrilainen]

@Ugri: I actually agree in every point except the feeding thing.

so you agree giving 10 pts to 4th is a bad idea

Lawsuit incoming...

well im ok since I have proofs right 

[Persuade]

not sure if mentioned or dismissed already, but what about

25/15/10/10

for point distribution?

[Ugrilainen]

not sure if mentioned or dismissed already, but what about

25/15/10/10

for point distribution?

15/10 ruins game big time, it was enforced in season 1-3 and players played for 2nd.

[FML|Renaud]

And I want the time rule!
After 3h, every player still alive loses 5 pts, and they loses another 5 for each half hour after that!

[rsm]

Well after season 11 this following idea may be the worst thing ever suggested, however it is better than posting nothing I suppose:

Round 1: admins seed top 8 if it's a 32 man league again
- The top 8 either then pick anybody remaining to be in their match or
There are 4 categorys (seeds 1-8, 9-16, etc.) and the seeds take turn picking one player from each category or
-After the first pick from seeds 1-8, the seeds 9-16 pick from the 3rd category, etc.
-Maybe have a 9 map mappool and from the best seed to worst seed each vetoes a map(worst seed does two maps in a row to allow the best seed to have the ultimate pick)
-Admins are able to not allow a pick ( ex. Duck picking Rebuke)
-Points awarded are 35/20/15/10, IMO this point system is ideal as the amount of points you get for winning is vastly greater than second where players won't be playing only for second, and getting second actually has a point rather than third.
-Each round winner repeats the above mentioned process, but now rather than seeds it will go by league ranking. This format could lead to great strategic power plays that could make you eliminate a top player from the playoffs, allow you to select someone you hate and suicide them, and in the process ruin the game, but most likely have the deserving top 10 in the playoffs. In the last two seasons I believe only two players were in both playoffs, Rain and I. Neither of us are considered top FFA players and many would argue we are very bad. While the admins do a great job trying to fairly pair players, there is just too many incidents this season that could have been avoided.


TLDR: I Micro, I Micro

[FML|WorpeX]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! While we can't add everyones idea into the league, we will do our best to make Season 12 unique, fun and as challenging as possible! Complete fairness is impossible in FFA, but we will continue to improve on the current system to make things better for all players!

As for Lightweights post:

a) I'm too tired to understand this. I'll read it again in the morning.

b) ehh. In FFA there is a clear difference between 2nd/3rd place and 4th place. It is extremely rare to see a game with all 4 players competing the very end. 3-way games are very common, even in Battle.net Ladder where you get no points for being part of the 3 way. If you're the guy who got rushed out, you should have scouted better and have been prepared for it. Simple as that, no 10 points for you.

Furthermore, this point rule would turn a 4-way game into a 3-way. Thus making already rare games even rarer. Someone with 0 chance to win the game will just leave since there is no incentive to stay in the game. Hes going to get 10 points regardless of if he stays or leaves, no reason to try. I don't like that. If you give up, you get 5 points.

No to mention the ties this would create. But you already know that.

c) I'm not sure if this is a suggestion or not, but its basically what we already do.

d) Agreed. This has been an unwritten rule for years now, its about time we make it official.

e) I don't think the rule needs to be changed, people just need to pause the game and ask admins on Garena. Don't ever leave a game after the 5min mark without consulting the admins first.

f) I'm still on the fence on this subject. I don't like feeding, but I do understand that it it can have useful strategic options. I think the current rule will suffice for now until someone does something clearly wrong but "legal" according the rules. I can't think of something like that, but hey, FFA players are clever.

g) No comment at this point.

[rygorych]

b) ehh. In FFA there is a clear difference between 2nd/3rd place and 4th place. It is extremely rare to see a game with all 4 players competing the very end. 3-way games are very common, even in Battle.net Ladder where you get no points for being part of the 3 way. If you're the guy who got rushed out, you should have scouted better and have been prepared for it. Simple as that, no 10 points for you.

Furthermore, this point rule would turn a 4-way game into a 3-way. Thus making already rare games even rarer. Someone with 0 chance to win the game will just leave since there is no incentive to stay in the game. Hes going to get 10 points regardless of if he stays or leaves, no reason to try. I don't like that. If you give up, you get 5 points.

No to mention the ties this would create. But you already know that.

I disagree, but fair enough, if that's your intention, and not just "because it's easier to break ties".


As to your points:
It's very easy to suicide someone into 4th. Just cross map them and force them into 1v2 (my market game, countless others this season). No amount of scouting prevents this. If someone is dumb enough to want to do it (hi Starshaped), they will do it.

You say you want players with 0 chance to win to still stay in game... I don't get that. If they have 0 chance to win, they lost. In fact, them leaving is preferable to them staying and harassing/suiciding someone with an actual chance to win.


But like I said, if you specifically want a clear separation in 4th play loss = BAD LOSS, vs 2nd/3rd = JUST YOUR AVERAGE LOSS, that's fine, I don't agree, but let's be clear about this, because then this sort of FFA is not just about playing for the win, it's about not getting that BAD LOSS (to me this is completely different mindset, it encourages griefing for 4th).

[Lightweight!]

Yo worpex thx for reading my stuff except a) which was the best idea in my eyes  . I think there is no difference between and 2nd 3rd or 4th place. You don't get anything playing for 3rd if you are at ladder. People will usually leave when they see no chance of winning. I understand that there might be a fear that people just leave if they can't win and the games will be shorter, but the exact contrary will happen, people won't be able to make stupid decisions without paying for it. I think there will be much more long 4 ways that we all are going to favour when people just can't rush out somebody, because they think they will be at least on the 3rd place.

@Renaud: I guess i wouldn't like time limits on ffa. Everybody is playing for having fun and great games, if you play one of those and you are pushed on a time limit this wouldn't be fun i think.

@Ebo: Rarely to happen, but as i said in my first post i think you are right about not making a difference between 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

[FML|Renaud]

Watch every replay that last more than 3h, and look at how much the players seem to be enjoying themselves! :P
(but yeah that rule suggestion was a joke :) )

[Ugrilainen]

@ Worpex : The point a is the system I told you about two weeks ago. 32 players, 16 in playoffs, 4 1/4 finals -> 1 final. I know you didnt like it but LW supports it, as does Slythe,dase maga... no one complained about it so far. Season is shorter and more intense, We should do it!

@ LW : ty for supporting my system buddy! Maybe you can help me change worpex' mind since as you know, he told on the chatbox on january 12th he didnt like it... yet! I am very glad you like it anyway.

Im thinking about your idea of integrating FML B in this Worpex. Like giving 16th spot to FML B winners but I needed to know how many players we would have.