Expel players from FML

[fetta_ook]

@Admins,

Like Wreck pointed out in his stream, all 8 players in obs agreed that this play from Dinamo and jaod was too fishy. Two players that usually are very talkative, now all of a sudden are quiet and keep avoiding each other.

Finding evidence of voice chat etc is literally impossible, but wouldn't it be possible to raise the voice of the community and let it be heard? Play like this is nothing that anybody wants in FML, so I suggest we have a vote on whether or not to ban them.

Yes, now jaod will come here and threat that he is leaving fml and  yada yada yada same old same old. Considering their history and the fact that they still don't learn is also just so weird.

I know that we are a small community and banning 2 active players would obviously suck, but not even remotely close to how much it sucks to play/obs games like M13 today (or any other game where they are cheating)

[ZsSuperCumulo]

Your rush on Renaud backfired, and Jaod had good scouting with shade, so he took the opportunity to finish you off.

Renaud and Dinamo did nothing while Jaod was killing your expos/main while you were at 50 so I guess Renaud and Dinamo were also preteaming?.

Dinamo sometimes chats in all, others just doesnt, I feel he's a bit like gradient, you know has autism and what not, but I don't think he was "voice cheating" with Jaod. He just wanted to hoard and maybe have a 1v1 with Jaod.

In any case I'd vote not to ban them because there is no way to gather evidence to prove they indeed cheated; moreover you have the right to chat or stay quiet during the whole game, just because someone cries "help" doesnt mean you have to act/help him otherwise you are considered pre-teamer cheater lol.

[FML|Mog]

I did obs the game, and it was very suspicious looking. We will review the game, but as with any sport, players are innocent until proven guilty. We will not ban players over suspicion. There must be a substantial amount of proof for something that severe.

I will close this thread it if gets out of control, but I am interested in hearing dinamo and jaod's thought processes in the game. Especially Dinamo's in the 2nd half of the game.

[Wrecktify]

"He just wanted to hoard and maybe have a 1v1 with Jaod."

This is the problem.  What I am calling a 'soft preteam' is exactly this - you are guiding the course of the game to a circumstance that benefits you and your buddy, irrespective of the course of the game.   It is akin to Q-Veta and Renaud's private chat on Deadlock that they would make it a 1v1 vs the two of them.  Both are preteams, just not as egregious as what we typically imagine when two players preteam.   

Whether players, who are unwilling or unable to play the game, rather than eachother, belong in the league is up to the admins.   Its clear entering future games that feature Jaod and Dinamo that it is basically 2v2, and that is not an FFA.  Not by a long shot. 

Nip it in the bud now, rather than waiting for a playoffs/finals match to be decided by who is friends with who.

[qwest]

 i was in obs too, it was rly strange...
once i protect (dinamo and jaod) on battle royale...
but it was 3 times..
and rly pls... no more Jaod and Dinamo in same game
it was not hard preteam
but it was very friendly game for make Jaod s win

[Tleilaxu]

Agree with the two comments above me. It wasn't a pre-team where they planned everything and were chatting on skype, but definitely some subconscious pre-team where Dinamo waits until Renaud has 1 build left before having a final 1v1 vs his buddy.
I don't really think there should be any punishment, just don't put them in the same game again.

[FML|WorpeX]

Both players are being asked to provide their version of the replay to check for Private Messaging.

I haven't watched the replay yet, but will do so now.

[Pyatac]

Ohh ....


Ok guys - i offer - ALL Admins must watch that fucking replay - and told that funny guys was it preteam or not ???

I soon watch replay and get here all commentaries abuot all what i think in every minute of that game - every my decisions....

 Lul - that was easy game for me as it is i am predicts to myself - plan was - early rush fetta as ORC player  -  cuz after his die i need only one type of UD army gargs 1 - 2 destroes and mb 1 wyrm...

[ZsSuperCumulo]

Both players are being asked to provide their version of the replay to check for Private Messaging.

I haven't watched the replay yet, but will do so now.

if they havent chatted privately then this post should be dismissed.

[FML|WorpeX]

Okay, I finished watching the replay.....

....and I don't see anything suspicious. Jaod played extremely well and deserves the win. Dinamo did some weird things but I don't see how him doing weird things constitutes pre-teaming. Couple of points I want to mention:

-Joad rushed out Fetta early thanks to good shade placement. He saw fetta was weak and decided to take out the orc. Seeing as Jaod was UD, this was a smart move IMO.

-Jaod then proceeded - after killing Fetta - to pick MULTIPLE fights with Dinamo. Including two big 100 food battles. He killed I believe two expos of Dinamo during this time.

-Dinamo asks Jaod for Peace. Jaod straight up says no and picks another fight with Dinamo.

-Renaud was fighting Dinamo throughout this. Dinamo gets sick of his shit and goes 100 food in Renauds base. JAOD shows up and starts to fight DINAMO until he backs off and lets Renaud and Dinamo go at it.

-JAOD LEFT HIS SHADE IN RENAUDS BASE. He saw Renaud win the fight. Jaod started to pick off some of Renauds expos.

-Renaud then turns his sights on fighting Jaod. He went after Jaods expos and then went straight into Jaods base where he lost a fight.

-Jaod then finishes off Renaud.

-Dinamo goes to Jaods base at start of 1v1. Jaod kills his army. Now, dinamo doesn't pump right away here which is a big argument in this thread. While its certainly suspicious, I'm sympathetic to this as i'm pretty shit at WC3 also and would also not pump immediately in this case cause of being bad.

-Jaod kills Dianmo and proceeds to win the game 2v1 as renaud was able to somewhat get back into the match.

-Dinamo never takes his main expo back, which was weird. Maybe he didn't want to draw attention to himself. Quite frankly, it was only 1k gold. I doubt it would have got him the win.

I would still like a replay from Jaod and Dinamo but I don't see anything suspicious here. Maybe it had something to do with not watching in real-time (I watched on 3x) but all the moves of Jaod seemed reasonable. Dinamo played poorly but I don't see how that matters.

[FML|Renaud]

It is akin to Q-Veta and Renaud's private chat on Deadlock

What??? THAT NEVER HAPPENED!!!!
It was on Gold Rush.

[FML|WorpeX]

Jaod did provide his copy of the replay. There was no private chat.

Nothing suspicious in my eyes.

[ZsSuperCumulo]

Yup, just like I thought, Jaod too OP for obs to see through him  .

[Dinamo-]

Guys enough to talk about the team with Jaod
I played only to win believe me I was sure that with this gold, but in 1 moment I decided to save more money, and Jaod came 100 limits when I had 3 heroes only and jaod killed 20-30 hippo by turns, myself I scold myself for it!
Really stop talking about some kind of team game, I'm just really very badly played, greed let me down  and Jaod play very very well!!!!!!!

[FML|Mog]

I think watching the game live and all obs probably already having some type of bias with past incidents between jaod + dinamo may have added some haziness to the view of the game. Jaod played well, especially early on. I was very thrown off while watching the game with dinamo's decision making and overall play. He made very many mistakes, especially in the second half of the game, which maybe wouldn't have been weird if jaod wasn't in the game (and winning). But everyone has bad games, where we may male more mistakes than normal, and here dinamo seems to have had one of those games.

I apologize to jaod and dinamo for some accusatory remarks while observing the game. I remember similar incidents or accusations back when teammates were in same ffa games, such as with dkh.rain and dkh.starshaped many seasons ago.

It was a friendly game... but there wasn't any cheating. Congrats to jaod for his win and sucks for dinamo who could have won but had poor play.