Facing my worst enemy - orcs

[KenoStrikesBack]

Hi, guys!

Some of you know me, most of you don't. Im some sort of new face here, even though ive played warcraft for a very long time. B4 i start, just wanna say "thank you" for all the fml admins and other ppl who made this page/bot/our little society real. Really appreciate it.

Okay, now my problem. Im an undead player and since I came here, to fml, i heard lots of times that ud fail in comparison to orcs. Now that I think of it, orcs r really making me most of the problems. Whats your opinion about this? what can an ud player do to counter the orcs in the best way he can?

Personally, I think sleep spell can change a lot. I apsolutely adore that spell. In fact, when i started playing ud, i was taking dl 1st, then dk then dr (lol)
so, sleep can stop the hex-stomp-focus combo, especially if i can land a sleep b4 hex comes in.
but there is so much more. bats, wyverns, bloodlust, taurens. i find myself in a battle agaisnt orc doing nothing coz i dont know what to focus and i get confused, thats when i fail usually.
cmon, share some advice :D

[Searcher_FF]

Someone said: nothing but hit'n'run.

[KenoStrikesBack]

hit n run with hex on my ass, ms aura and light orb? huh?

[FML|WorpeX]

The problem with FFA is that blizzard balanced WC3 for solo games. Some races get to be monsters at late game with little to nothing that the other races can do to stop it.

As far as undead vs orc goes, here is how to beat them:

Kill them early.

Undead is actually stronger then orc is early game. In solo, it's common to see undeads tower rush an orc player and be successful.

Come mid-game, the match-up becomes fairly even, depending on item drops. If the orcs blademaster happens to get some great drops, it likely wont feel even.

There really isn't too much an undead player can do to stop late game orc. Massing Wyrms and Destroyers is the most common strategy because bats are not a cost effective way of beating it (if you're at max armor and coil fast/keep units spread apart). The issue with this strategy is that Wyverns WILL tear it apart unless you have good enough nukage to stop it. However, even if your army wins, beating high-level orc heroes as undead is not easy. Keep invul pots on you.

As far as FFA goes... Kill the Orc early. If you can't, you'll need to out-gold him and win on economy because he will have the advantage in straight-up fights.

[Infifan]

FFA rule nr.1, team others and kill the good orcs first.

[FML|Renaud]

I'm not an undead player, so this is only theorycraft, and should not be taken too seriously... but make more casters sounds like the way to go:

• Destro: devour as much as you can.  Orcs without lust/link/wards are not half as scary; also, very useful to remove Hex to escape the hexstomp death-trap
• Banshee: Anti orc unit (in theory anyway)
  
  • Curses cancels the attack bonus of lust (actually leaves the unit 93.33% efficient)
  • AMS *does* work against bats explosion (a bit)
  • Posses can remove a taurens permanently (or at least immobilize them for a little while...)
• Necro:
  
  • Raise Dead: Cancel the revive of taurens
  • Cripple: It literally cripples a unit, -50% atk rate and -50% dmg is amazing (not to mention -75% movement) if you combine it with curse, that blade master is not half as scary as it used to be
• Shade: Have one with you at all time, mostly to remove sentry ward, but also to be able to nuke the BM as he tries to windwalk away

Also from personal experience, if you think you will lose a battle, you have two choices:
1- TP away
2- run away, loses 20 food to hex/purge, and then TP away

I highly recommend option 1


Next is knowing what you should target in battle; many different theories, but focusing TC is almost never a good plan

Good Luck

[Persuade]

Destro:

Purge

Banshee:

silence/disenchant/stomp/bladestorm

Necro:

silence/disenchant/stomp/bladestorm

Shade:

it's like a sentry ward that costs gold

Also from personal experience, if you think you will lose a battle, you have two choices:
1- TP away

purge


The best way to beat an orc is follow the renaud rule.

A. are they orc?
Yes > team/rush them
No > Tell them you respect them for not picking orc

B. Are they not orc?
Yes > Tell them you respect them for not picking orc
No > team/rush them

[FML|Renaud]

Destro:

Purge

Banshee:

silence/disenchant/stomp/bladestorm

Necro:

silence/disenchant/stomp/bladestorm

Shade:

it's like a sentry ward that costs gold

Also from personal experience, if you think you will lose a battle, you have two choices:
1- TP away

purge

Make an extra destro to remove Silence (but yeah, you are fucked if he got a DR)
If he disenchant, he also removes his buff, better for you imo.
Even IF he disenchant the skellies, the corpse are already gone and that's what matters

[Seksi]

As Worpex pointed out, you're best shot is to rush the Orc with either a very quick rush (some kind of level 3 DK + 4-6 fiends tower rush) or better yet a more practical 80 food rush. 

Undead has an advantage against Orc in the early game since all of its units share the same upgrade tree and require less wood to tech fully.  You can practice the macro to attain a strong 80 food army of fiends, destroyers, and 1-2 wyrms.  Ex:

DK/Lich/DL - 15 food
Shredder - 4 food
Acolytes - 10 food
Shade - 1 food
7 Fiends - 21 food
3 Destroyer - 15 food
2 Frost Wyrms - 14 food

This would be a strong 80 food army that you could attack an Orc player with.  Orc has the longest tech time in getting master casters, tier 3 upgrades etc and is generally vulnerable in this time.  You should focus on upgrading armor before attack (to make bats less effective) and then you can handle the Orc that is not hugely buffed and high leveled.  Sleep, as you mentioned, is your first move on the TC or BM while you can Nuke the SH or simply web the wyverns and devour the magic.  Orc has a tough time dealing with this kind of rush early.

------------------------

If this time has passed - the best army you can make against Orc is made up of Gargs/Destroyers.  While Bats are not as effective against heavy air (Wyrms/Destroyers), Wyverns TEAR through these two units and Gargs are the only unit that counters Wyverns late game.  Bats can be used effectively against Gargs, but with Stone Form, Scrolls, 3 armor upgrades and UD nukes you can combat Bats using Gargs.  Hero use is key.  An example army against Orc late game:

12-18 Gargs, 3-5 Destroyers, 3 Hero, maybe 1-2 Wyrms.  You can add casters if you'd like, but they tend to get destroyed quickly against the super DPS Orc army.  Your focus in battle should be to first and foremost use your hero skills.  Nova/Swarm the Wyverns/Bats/Casters and Sleep the TC or BM.  Try to get a few volleys of spells if possible before engaging.  Once engaging, your priority should be to kill the Wyverns with Gargs and then Casters with anything else.  If you can quickly kill the SH go for it.  Stone form is key here when using Gargs.  The Orc will explode bats into your light air in which you must Stone Form to prevent this.  If you time this right, the Bats will lose focus and you will be able to kill them with nuke/quick focus.  Once the bats are out, your Gargs should have an easy time decimating the Wyverns in tandem with Frost Nova.  Continue to spam SLeep at every chance to shut down the BM or TC.  At any opportunity, take out the casters.  Nova/Swarm/Focus, Sleep Hero, stone form against Bats.  An Orc army without its casters is weak. 

With this being said, only a select number of Undeads can fight the strong Orcs well.  Orcs naturally dominate Undead so it really requires good use of Hero skills, scrolls, stone form and devour for your best shot.  Fiends late game are practically useless against the high DPS of Orc and imbalanced level 3 Stomp.  If you can, try to avoid your heroes being clumped together and suffering the wrath of stomp.  Sleep the TC, nuke the Air/Casters, STone form your bats, reposition and nuke to gain the advantage. 

[y.zenchenko]

Seksi, you'd better delete these imba anti-orc guide   

[y.zenchenko]

But afterall looking at current standings we have 4 orcs in top-16. Seems balanced, no?

[FML|Renaud]

but 2/4 of the ranks 1 are orcs!

[Searcher_FF]

heh you need a hell of a micro to use that. And orc just can have right click 

[y.zenchenko]

heh you need a hell of a micro to use that. And orc just can have right click 

1. "orc just have to right click" - it's not true
2. If a win playing orc is so easy why the hell all of you don't play'em ?

[Searcher_FF]

I was thinking about it, maybe should try to learn. Actually i like UD most.