new BIG FFA 12 Player map for FML

[maveron]

I have made myself an map which I really hope that will be used by this website and members to play really fun and serious big ffa games.

for the full scoop you can go here:

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/ragnarok-239151/

I hope Ugri can manage something for this map. I personally think it is really special and great fun to play on it!

Lets hope Ugri can schedule something for this map


Regards Rene

[Pinballmap]

Hi.

Thanks for posting your map, we really appreciate your work, and we're really short on good 12 player maps! Maybe we will use your map for a little showmatcb in the future.

[FML|WorpeX]

GORGEOUS map. I saw it the other day on the hive after someone mentioned it in the cbox. Should have some KILLER games on this map. Can't wait to test it out!!!

But, as a map maker myself and one of the admins here, I have to give some constructive criticism.

Cons
-Don't know for sure as I haven't tested it, but it looks like a lot of creeps are agroable from simply walking past them.
-item drops are not good. The natural expo 100% drops a sobi mask! thats insane. I recommend following this item drop guide from blizzard: http://classic.battle.net/mod/dev/melee.shtml (middle of the page)
-Shadows need to be recalculated. Lots of weird shadows going on.
-You left a lot of doodads floating in the water on the outside of the map.
-You won't like to hear this one, but it's a biggie... The tree's are very poorly done. :/ There are holes all over the tree line around the map. Wisps and small units can just hide in tree's and go undetected. Tree hiding with elf will be difficult to spot (can't see a hole in the tree line if there is no tree line) Very bad for balance.

Pros
-Love the look and feel of the map! The terrain work is EXCELLENT! I love the city in the middle of the map. Well done!!
-It's a 12 player map. These things are INTENSE to make. I struggle with 8 player maps and here you are, making this behemoth! Very few people can do it so it's something to be proud of.
-All starting spots are -nearly- identical. I find it very hard to accomplish what you did here. Make all spots the same, balance wise, but yet be different in appearance. Very cool!
-There are enough expos for everyone to be happy (which is incredible for a 12 player map).
-Racial Balance seems pretty good apart from the treeline issues, though I wont know for sure until we get some tests going. The only thing I notice is that it is going to be an air map as the ground pathing looks annoying to traverse with large armies.

Seems good so far. Keep up the good work!! Hope you are able to make these changes because this map is AWESOME so far!!!

[Lightweight]

Indeed it looks nice. I cant go into further detail because i never made a map  . For the bot those 12 player maps are a bit hard to implement. They can take 2-3 hours. A showmatch would be great to be satisfactory for your work. A bit much gold in my eyes though. Every player has a 17500 and there are even more in the middle. Players will be taken out early so there is a massive amount of gold on the map. But thats just a side note.

[maveron]

GORGEOUS map. I saw it the other day on the hive after someone mentioned it in the cbox. Should have some KILLER games on this map. Can't wait to test it out!!!

But, as a map maker myself and one of the admins here, I have to give some constructive criticism.

Cons
-Don't know for sure as I haven't tested it, but it looks like a lot of creeps are agroable from simply walking past them.

Let me test for that tomorrow and give some feedback on it, If someone is able to help me test would be
great. is it possible I can get 4 players scheduled on a given evening to test some stuff out of the map instead of killing eachother. would be  atleast check which creeps camps give problems

-item drops are not good. The natural expo 100% drops a sobi mask! thats insane. I recommend following this item drop guide from blizzard: http://classic.battle.net/mod/dev/melee.shtml (middle of the page) -
I will check this page and I will fix the 100% sobi drop   my bad  should have been random Permanent

-Shadows need to be recalculated. Lots of weird shadows going on.
-You left a lot of doodads floating in the water on the outside of the map.
Yeah I will fix that soon TM

-You won't like to hear this one, but it's a biggie... The tree's are very poorly done. :/ There are holes all over the tree line around the map. Wisps and small units can just hide in tree's and go undetected. Tree hiding with elf will be difficult to spot (can't see a hole in the tree line if there is no tree line) Very bad for balance.
I understand what you are saying but I need to test it myself, I just thought the trees random were so artistic :P

Pros
-Love the look and feel of the map! The terrain work is EXCELLENT! I love the city in the middle of the map. Well done!!
-It's a 12 player map. These things are INTENSE to make. I struggle with 8 player maps and here you are, making this behemoth! Very few people can do it so it's something to be proud of.
-All starting spots are -nearly- identical. I find it very hard to accomplish what you did here. Make all spots the same, balance wise, but yet be different in appearance. Very cool!
-There are enough expos for everyone to be happy (which is incredible for a 12 player map).
-Racial Balance seems pretty good apart from the treeline issues, though I wont know for sure until we get some tests going. The only thing I notice is that it is going to be an air map as the ground pathing looks annoying to traverse with large armies.
Might be , but I can manage 5 tanks through it. but yes maybe it causes some game play problems

Seems good so far. Keep up the good work!! Hope you are able to make these changes because this map is AWESOME so far!!!
You make me Blush

Indeed it looks nice. I cant go into further detail because i never made a map  . For the bot those 12 player maps are a bit hard to implement. They can take 2-3 hours. A showmatch would be great to be satisfactory for your work. A bit much gold in my eyes though. Every player has a 17500 and there are even more in the middle. Players will be taken out early so there is a massive amount of gold on the map. But thats just a side note.

Too much gold you said?  Maybe Maybe, I did some quick calculation If we take Divide and Conquer as example That map has an total gold of 420.000 (12x17K + 12x13K +4x15K)  my Map has an total of 524 (12x14.5K + 20x17.5K).  that is 25% more but I also think ppl are going to stay a tiny bit longer alive then on Divide and conquer but I would like to hear other peoples opinion on it

I can do for example 13.5K on main base and Reduce all others to 16K (that would drop it already to 482K on the whole map and then only has 10% mroe GOld then Divide and conquer.

I am off to bed now and I will fix some minor stuff tomorrow and post update on Hiveworks

Regards Rene

[Seksi]

This map looks EPIC.  I love the lay out of the map and the visuals are stunning.  My first impression is the best it could be, really nice work. 

I will definitely help you perfect the map and give you feedback on everything after testing.  The creep camps, item drops, overall balance etc.

WorpeX has the experience with maps so you should listen to his tips as well.  This map looks so awesome!!!!!

[FML|WorpeX]

Let me test for that tomorrow and give some feedback on it, If someone is able to help me test would be
great. is it possible I can get 4 players scheduled on a given evening to test some stuff out of the map instead of killing eachother. would be  atleast check which creeps camps give problems

Shouldn't be too hard. Try and see if anyone is on the chat box or check Clan FML on Azeroth.

I understand what you are saying but I need to test it myself, I just thought the trees random were so artistic :P

I know! It looks really cool and very natural.... but from a gameplay standpoint its not good. Look at any blizzard map with "ground pathing" turned on and you will see that there are no gaps in the treewalls. This is because if there are, small units can pass through the gaps and hide; they are invisible to an army passing by. It becomes a very abusable balance issue.

Might be , but I can manage 5 tanks through it. but yes maybe it causes some game play problems

Yeah... in FFA, 5 tanks is a small army. hahaha. Try fitting in 15 tanks, 3 heroes, spellbreakers and priests! Like I said though, I haven't tested it yet - this was simply an observation. It's very possible that I am wrong and its fine.

Furthermore.... its FFA. Players rarely use a ground army anyway. The only race that does often is human and they will just mass TP everywhere. lol

Too much gold you said?  Maybe Maybe, I did some quick calculation If we take Divide and Conquer as example That map has an total gold of 420.000 (12x17K + 12x13K +4x15K)  my Map has an total of 524 (12x14.5K + 20x17.5K).  that is 25% more but I also think ppl are going to stay a tiny bit longer alive then on Divide and conquer but I would like to hear other peoples opinion on it

I don't think its an issue so much. Testing will determine if you should reduce the gold mine size. What we can speculate is that players will survive longer due to having more gold so games will go longer. How much longer, we don't really know... yet!!

[Jey_s_TeArS]

looks nice!

I played the map solo, it s very very beautiful, love the color scheme. There is a problem with the  trees as WorpeX said. I also suggest that you change the troll high priest for a simple troll priest, he uses inner fire on himself only and make the creep camp very hard with his heal on golems, 3 footmans 6 milicia, you still got out of it with red units