next season?

[FML|Mage]

Why his whole conference and not just his match?  I can see some positives to it, such as strategically pick a map that will favor someone you want to play in the finals, but I like the idea of second place picking the map for their game better I think.  Aside from that you completely agree with Ugri =D

[Persuade]

Why his whole conference and not just his match?  I can see some positives to it, such as strategically pick a map that will favor someone you want to play in the finals, but I like the idea of second place picking the map for their game better I think.  Aside from that you completely agree with Ugri =D

Well personally I want to pick map but I do think there should be something that separates the rank 1's from everything else.  It would make sense if seed 1 and 2 were the best players of each conference, but that is simply not true.

[FML|Mage]

By the same logic though it doesn't necessarily mean rank 1 is the best in the conference.  The difference between 1st and 2nd could be minuscule and purely a matter of luck.  Frankly I would say it's all rather arbitrary and subjective.  I don't think it can be denied that the top two in each division are among the best, but they could just as easily be in 3rd or 4th based off a few things in-game.  Which is why I think that Ugri's system actually works pretty well since it does reward the top two, but not to the extent the previous seasons did (well top 1 for that).

Also Ugri, how do tie breakers work if needed? 

[Persuade]

By the same logic though it doesn't necessarily mean rank 1 is the best in the conference.  The difference between 1st and 2nd could be minuscule and purely a matter of luck.  Frankly I would say it's all rather arbitrary and subjective.  I don't think it can be denied that the top two in each division are among the best, but they could just as easily be in 3rd or 4th based off a few things in-game.  Which is why I think that Ugri's system actually works pretty well since it does reward the top two, but not to the extent the previous seasons did (well top 1 for that).

Also Ugri, how do tie breakers work if needed?

You make a good point p1, I'm glad we were able to discuss this intelligently.  I shall concede my point and begin speculation on the contingencies involved with the tie breaking seed.

[rygorych]

Difference between Rank 1 and Rank 2 is probably due to luck.
Rank 1 and 16 though is silly. It's not that I'm better than Q, but why the hell even run 2+ months worth of preliminary rounds if you're still accepting practically everyone who showed up for all 4 games (25% chance to win = at least 1 game won, 2 games at 10, 1 game at 5 = 50 points = passing score).

Either reward those who did really well (or got really lucky, in my case), or don't waste time of 2+ months doing useless 4 rounds that in the end almost don't matter at all (map choice is cool, but not nearly rewarding enough to differentiate 1 from 16).



My suggestion for next season:
1-2 top players auto-pass into finals
3-10 play 2 FFAs to decide final spots

E.g. how S11 was.

And Ugri, that's what experementation is for. LW initiatially was anti-PM and now he's pro-PM, as he himself says. People change their minds once they see something in practice. This season had way too many subs and bad matchups, and as a result, semi passing threshold ended up way too low (should be at least 60 points, requiring 2 wins, e.g. higher than 25% average). It's not that I don't like 16 player semis, it's just 4 rounds are made pointless by this system. Why wait 2+ months and still pick up nearly everyone who showed up with equal chance into finals?

[Ugri2]

Experimentation? Did we experimented the 4 semis yet? No we did not. But you already have your opinion cause you ended 1st and now you think "omg any other season I would be in the final already!".

At this day you have the exact same information about the system than at the start of the season, only difference being that you ended 1st.

Btw not everyone made the semi, some pretty good players are out.

So let's see if we have good games with these 4 :

Ebo
Redkeekee
Nooblex
Q

Persuade
Wrectify
Paterique
Renaud

Lovetrance
Darkermirror
Slythe
Kruppe

Ghost Burn
Dkh.Rain
Maga
LW

I think we will.

Then we will see if the final is less skilled and less interesting than S10 and S11.

[Persuade]

Experimentation? Did we experimented the 4 semis yet? No we did not. But you already have your opinion cause you ended 1st and now you think "omg any other season I would be in the final already!".

At this day you have the exact same information about the system than at the start of the season, only difference being that you ended 1st.

Btw not everyone made the semi, some pretty good players are out.

So let's see if we have good games with these 4 :

Ebo
Redkeekee
Nooblex
Q

Persuade
Wrectify
Paterique
Renaud

Lovetrance
Darkermirror
Slythe
Kruppe

Ghost Burn
Dkh.Rain
Maga
LW

I think we will.

Then we will see if the final is less skilled and less interesting than S10 and S11.

I like these matches, let's not change it.

Also I'm calling it  ghost/q-veta/renaud/kruppe for finals

[rygorych]

So let's see if we have good games with these 4 :

Ebo
Redkeekee
Nooblex
Q

Persuade
Wrectify
Paterique
Renaud

Lovetrance
Darkermirror
Slythe
Kruppe

Ghost Burn
Dkh.Rain
Maga
LW

I think we will.

Then we will see if the final is less skilled and less interesting than S10 and S11.

Ugri you're misreading basically everything I said.

Semis and Final will not be the problem. I'm sure they will be great.

My problem is with wasting 2+ months on pointless 4 rounds which basically don't matter as long as you attend them all.

[FML|Renaud]

Ugri you're misreading basically everything I said.

Semis and Final will not be the problem. I'm sure they will be great.

My problem is with wasting 2+ months on pointless 4 rounds which basically don't matter as long as you attend them all.

Beljone, Bright, Walking, Stepping, Reflekkt, Maddog, ntropy, pbm, camp, mmmmmmk, kane would disagree

[rygorych]

So we spent 2.5 months just to get rid of about 30% active players?

[FML|Renaud]

Yep.

Also, the main point is to be able to play ffa :P

[Ugri2]

I am not misreading anything. I reacted to what you said about the format needing to be experimented to be criticized.

The point of the season is like all regular seasons : to play quality games, to seed and eliminate.

If you are in some hurry we can just take 16 players and get a season winner in 5 games : it would last two weeks.

Oh wait it would be boring maybe?

[Ugri2]

And yeah it is somewhat disrespectfull for the players who got eliminated to know that they are so worthless to make our new ffa king ebo lose 2 months of his life!

[rygorych]

If the point is to play FFA, why put emphasis on points. Let's have some fun FFAs instead. I don't know. I just feel like spending 4 rounds to eliminate just 30% players is kinda wrong.

[Redkeekee]

I think ebo's point is that the playoffs didn't eliminate enough people and that qualifying basically mean less because so many people did.  Top 10 instead of top 16 is more competitive in a league with around 32-40 players.  Valid point if that's what he's trying to say but I'm still on the fence about the issue.