Macro vs Micro & Maga vs Fat coaches

[rygorych]

Actually 3 maga and 1 ebo, maga would win 99.9% of the time

Why?  Simple!  Like you said maga has this honor thing, where he probably wouldn't team someone until he is the strongest, so the game would be two 1v1 (and he would probably go quick 80, since like you said, UD needs high hero to be competitive, so early aggression is good ffa sense (what you call macro))

I'm guessing that 90% of the time, Maga would win his 1v1 vs you, then enter a 3 way.  And in the 10% where you win that intial 1v1, you would probably be teamed for being orc.  And assuming you are not orc... well your odds of winning just dropped again.  And they would probably team you once you start manipulation, to keep the game clean and simple.

You mean 99.9% chance of one of maga's winning, meaning 33.33% chance of "the" maga winning?
No, it wouldn't be a fun game for me, but like I said, unless Maga specifically wants someone dead (not typical, but he may make an exception for me), he hits closest person like a retard. Therefore, I have 25% chance of surviving to 3way, then using them against each other to survive. Maga is bad at macro, but he is not a suicider, he knows when to stop fighting and play balancing game, at least.

I agree that this is not a good match for an ebo-type player, but this is the only matchup where a maga-type would have best chances of winning. In all other combinations, he would have 0%-15% to win at best. You're thinking in absolutes, Renaud, while I think about averages and overall expected outcomes long-term. You should see the movie "Moneyball", it explains why maga-types are actually not very good in sports, but are beloved by the public.

and this is where you are wrong.  WC3 FFA is what?  It's us.  And we decided long ago to have the same meaning as 1v1 for macro, and we added the term "FFA sense" to explain the rest of the stuff.

I call it what I like, don't like it, call it something else. Are we seriously arguing semantics of a dead game?

[FML|Renaud]

Well if we rate players on that we must all have the same criteria!

[Magadansky]

Another funny thing is that this guy hates me for no reason. At least Wreck has reasons to hate me since we always suicide each other (except on the FML final) but except being a total attention whore I have no other explanation why he is trying that much.

[rygorych]

Well if we rate players on that we must all have the same criteria!

Fair enough, which is why I originally asked that mods only do the rating.

[rygorych]

Another funny thing is that this guy hates me for no reason. At least Wreck has reasons to hate me since we always suicide each other (except on the FML final) but except being a total attention whore I have no other explanation why he is trying that much.

Where did I say that I hate you, Maga?

I don't hate anybody. I don't even hate HU abusers, because antagonizing them is fun. The only person I somewhat hated last season was DKH.SS, who basically said that he hates FFA and doesn't want to play at some point and kept suiciding in almost every game, but he got better in the end and even pulled out into the finals, so I don't hate him anymore (in fact respect him, somewhat).

I don't hate you. Having you in FML and in any given game is fun because you add a layer of strategy based around using you as a scapegoat. Though I don't particularly enjoy playing many of "maga-types", because to me it's mindless gameplay; once in awhile, it's nice for a change. I do like to play the ebo-types more because I enjoy the chess tactics/manipulation from all sides, more than finger agility training. But hate you? No, I don't need to hate you to give a fair assessment of your skill.
 

[Magadansky]

But you dont give that fair assessment since you say that I mindlessly hit everybody which is very very far away from the truth. There is not a single game that I hit anyone without thinking in advance why. You saw way too little number of games from me to judge me in any sort, and you take the games that you saw selectively and only certain moments where I made mistakes ingame, not because I would do that if I had the right information. Name me one player who doesnt make mistakes,small or big, in every ffa that goes past the one hour mark. What you do though is to pick those mistakes, small or big, and emphasize only on them how I am playing without a clue.

Anyway, I am done with replying. Read the paragraph again if you continue to think that I am a mindless soloer who rages against everybody in ffa. If no change, then I stick even harder to my first comment: you are delusional and funny (in a pathetic way) or just an attention whore.

[rygorych]

You're right Maga, maybe my sample size of your games is too small, not going to argue there. The reason I even started talking about you in the context of what "macro" is because to me you're the polarizing example of quite possibly best micro of all FFA players out there. Cheers.

[daselend]

Dase you're basically Maga who plays orc, except that gets you even more teamed because orc is OP. I'm sure you're totally on his side. Show me a replay where Maga wins vs 3 good players please. I know of one such replay, market vs darkness johny murrock and he won thanks to early 3way/darkness taking up heat/suicide + stay quiet like I mentioned in my tips.

Here is my litmus test for figuring out if a player has good macro or not:
If I clone myself and put that player in a game with 3 of me, does he have an equal chance (25%)? That's not the case with maga. 3 of me would be smart enough to team him when he does he cookie cutter shit yet again. On the other hand someone like l77 would have 25%, because he'd be smart enough about playing the right way to keep an illusion of balance, and strike out at the right point in time.


And once again, you're applying SC 1v1's definition of macro to WC3 FFA. I apply WC3 FFA's definition of macro to WC3 FFA. But that's semantics. Really, who cares?


And lastly, you bring up my own skill. Are we discussing my skill here? Where/when did I claim that I'm good or better than player X? Or are you saying that me being low skill doesn't allow me to criticize others? Oh so fat b-ball coaches can't say shit to actual players because they don't play b-ball as well? OK son.

Watch more games of Maga. I've played him many times (also back in the old days on ladder) and he's probably the best UD in FFA I've ever seen (only surpassed by Yane in micro, but not as a player).

Your litmus test is, to put it lightly, flawed. I'll let you figure out why.

B-Ball coaches actually know something about the game that is of value to the players coached by them. Also, it's a team sport, which makes the comparison much worse. But more importantly, I never brought up your skill to say you shouldn't be allowed to talk about other players. Just stop being so disrespectful.

After all, why I pointed out the differences between macro and decision making seems to be the issue here. I think using your simplification of macro (based on the encyclopedia of FFA? what? where did you get that "definition" from?) you misjudge what people consider to be individual playing styles. You want to win by tactics and "chess moves", that's fine, we don't hate for you that, but never think we don't know about it and don't keep it in mind.

Over and out.

[rygorych]

Dase I made pretty damn constructive points of improving Maga's macro based on the games I've seen. How is that disrespectful? A fat coach mentioning a pro player's weaknesses and indicating how those could be alleviated is being disrespectful?

[rsm]

I agree with ebo, everytime I play maga, he mindlessly creepjacks me, and I sit there scratching my head how vvv.deuce got on maga's account(deuce is the definition of down syndrome in the oxford dictionary)

His ego and inability to lie well/feign weakness is what is holding him back from being a great player. Micro means a lot less than macro in ffa, 14 points less in maga's case.

p.s never compare maga to yane again as they are not close in skill what so ever(yane 50x better), thanks.

over and out

[FML|WorpeX]

Well this was a nice thread idea, a shame it was derailed and turned into flaming and poking holes in other peoples play style.

Closed.

[FML|Renaud]

A fat coach mentioning a pro player's weaknesses and indicating how those could be alleviated is being disrespectful?

But you are a fat coach who said "if you played against me you would only win 1% of the time" :P

[FML|Renaud]

and well even though  this is not derailling anymore I guess i'll keep it lock since we all seem to have strong opinions about macro vs ffa sense and fat coaches vs maga, and we don't look like we will change our minds!