S24 Community Feedback

[letshavesomefun]

Rumor has it FML was founded as Famous Minidota League.

But over the centurys the translation was lost and falsly assumed FML stands for FFA Masters League.

When Yane the prophet himself discovered the original meaning and threatend Worpex to go public Worpex couldnt let that happen.

Yane had to dissapear leaving me a cryptic message i wasnt ready to decipher.

After winning the Betting standings this season i finally archieved the necessary skills to unterstand and decipher yanes message.

Now Knowing FML was ment as a minidota league i demand we go back to the roots

and make MINIDOTA in season 25 GREAT AGAIN.

kind regards: shave

[SteppinRazor]

Not that its really FML related, but hosting another massive tournament sometime in the next coming weeks/month between S24 and S25 would be awesome.  I'd be willing to help get it organized.

[FML|WorpeX]

Not that its really FML related, but hosting another massive tournament sometime in the next coming weeks/month between S24 and S25 would be awesome.  I'd be willing to help get it organized.

[ZsSuperCumulo]

Not that its really FML related, but hosting another massive tournament sometime in the next coming weeks/month between S24 and S25 would be awesome.  I'd be willing to help get it organized.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL ;D that's one cool banner!

[ZsSuperCumulo]

@FML|WorpeX

[noexxx]

I loved the new point systems, it feels good to have 14 points when you lose being the first place. Sure sometimes you get a free tome and don't deserve those 14 points but in most of the cases you have to fight to be first in the game. What's negative about this point system is that it is extremely hard to get the first place with weird heroes. It may not change anything but I think most of the people will go standard heroes because it helps you a lot to get the first place! All in all I think this point system is awesome because not a lot of people go weird heroes.
However I do not think the point system changes a lot in the ranking! Just a few very good players didn't make it in the top 10 and we had a few surprises which is perfect in my opinion.
What I would like to see again is the card bonus with this point system. You have to chose before the game wether you use it or not and it gives you the double amount of point. And to spice things a little bit I would like to see a bo1 on an ffa map to determine the winner if 2 players have the same amount of point. Sure it favors humans but why not :)
In conclusion I liked the new point system and I would like something funny to spice up the league if its possible ! For example the challenge thing was really cool some season ago and we could all be creative together and find some! I will try to think about it.
Thank you for keeping this community alive! Cheers

[ashalar]

i didn't really care for the map veto system, it kind of penalizes the 1st person to veto and basically the last person to veto pretty much picks the remaining map

I'd rather see like 2 maps and people vote on veto and if there is a tie everyone plays on a 3rd secret map. I think mb fml did something a similar thing in the past I dont remember.

[ZsSuperCumulo]

Here are some of the things that should be addressed:

First and foremost, an American Bot for FML.

I remember back in season 21 and up to season 22 we used to have two bots, one from the US east coast and another from France. I don't know exactly when but by season 23 the US east coast bot disappeared leaving us with no choice but to play with the French bot. I wouldn't mind this so much if it wasn't for the big ping difference that we see in players. For instance, most of the players from the Americas have a ping well above 130 ms on that bot while Europeans have about 30 ms. This 100 ping difference can certainly make a difference in the game so it would be fair to have a bot based on the US that serves as a neutral bot for those from Europe and the Americas.
I personally play with 230 ms ping vs Europeans who have 50 ms or less and this is because we use the French bot, if we were to use a US bot we'd be playing 160 ms vs 120 ms so the gap would not be as big as it is with the French bot.
The French bot works best for those playing in Europe, you guys can use the French bot in that case, but if there are players from the Americas then we ought to use a US bot in order to close the gap of pings and make it more fair and balanced for all players.
Ena recently mentioned that he could help us with access to some bots. These bots I believe are from the US Los Angeles and Canada Quebec. Although I am fine using any of these bots, these are a short term solution and I think they belong to a different domain, that is not to FML, but clan Viki.
I think the US bot from previous seasons may have been selected and used for the PlayFFA ladder since my ping there feels better than at the French bot. Maybe DV or Ponty can introduce the FML maps from each round and restart the bot just like we did with Battleground this past season in round 5, but again, it would require DV to be present at the time of the match and restart the PlayFFA bot so that all of us could join, then kick all of the random players who join that are not part of FML, which is annoying in my opinion.
In any case, I think season 25 should be as fair as possible and by that we ought to have a US based bot that is neutral for all FML players.

Second, the score is broken, switch it back asap.

I remember when this first was introduced people who were in favor of it were saying "by having this system we will now have more engaging games, people will fight much earlier on and not hoard, etc, etc...". Well this was all bullshit since quite frankly I didn't see any difference in the games; people were hoarding, some were crying for help when they couldn't win their 1v1; hell even some cried for help without even fighting or breaking 50. What this system did was reward those who played aggressively and quite well the whole game, the perfect example is soso, who although couldn't make it to semifinals, he managed to almost get there, falling short by 2 points even though he only won 1 game. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be in semifinals since he is probably top 5 players in the community at this moment, but the fact that he got so many bonus points because of this new system is just unreal. Bonus points for 1st place finishers should be meant as a way to tie break if it's an important matter such as qualifying to semi finals. We saw this in season 23 with Mog, Wreck, Geass and Alien who all had about same points in the last round and having that +1 made all the difference in the world. Another thing is that taking 2 points away from the winner of the game and giving it to the 1st place just seems wrong, specially because FFA is not about "who played best", but about who won the freaking game. It would be wiser to keep the 22 pts for the winner and just give +1 point to the 1st place, or even better switch back to 25, 10, 10, 5 since it worked better because it rewarded greatly those who won games rather than pretend to change players' styles like this new system intended to do when it was first introduced.

Third, the veto system

I did like the idea of giving players a choice, but I think something that can be done for the following season is:
Each round should consist of a set of maps that equal in number of possible starting spawns. For instance, round 1 should have the following maps in the pool of veto: Market Square, Twilight Ruins, Northshire, The Crucible; round 2: Silverpine, Harvest of Sorrow, ThunderLake, Monsoon; round 3: Twisted Meadows, Anarchy Castle, Fountain of Manip, Death rose. All of these veto pools contain the same amount of players, (8), (6), (4), and maybe for the remain rounds make a combination or throw in some of the new maps. Also, the idea of secret map suggested by Ashalar sounds legit.

[FML|WorpeX]

Second, the score is broken, switch it back asap.

First of all, thank you very much for your input and I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy the new scoring system. However... in your explanation for it being broken you actually just verified the entire reason we switched over to this scoring system in the first place. 

This is supposed to be a masters league where we present the best games with the best players. We want to reward aggressive playing and we want to reward players who played extremely well, even if they fell short due to teaming. Winning is still the best way to the top of the rankings but playing well consistently - even if you had poor luck - should also be rewarded.

zTsoso was a great example that you used. Because he played well consistently, he was rewarded with bonus points. However, winning is still extremely important and because he didn't do that enough, he still didn't make the playoffs. I don't see any examples where the new system hurt players who won a lot of games. NoMercy made it to the top of the standings despite not being one of the best micro players... he did it by winning.

[ZsSuperCumulo]

I don't see any examples where the new system hurt players who won a lot of games.

Well, players such as Junkerzam and Trumanshow who had 2 wins ended up with less points than soso, and that should not have happened since winning two games should have more merit than finishing first many times, specially when junker and truman only finished 4th 2 times and one time respectively.

Taking points away from winner and giving it to 1st place should not continue, it belittles the efforts of those who win games. Although getting 20 pts is far better than getting 14 pts, if someone wins 3 consecutive games but finishing 2nd, hence getting only 60 pts then he would have missed 6 pts that are more than enough to make a difference between going into semifinals or the grand finals.

The bonus point should only be +1 pt and under no circumstance be taken away from the winner.

[FML|red7z7]

if someone wins 3 consecutive games but finishing 2nd, hence getting only 60 pts then he would have missed 6 pts that are more than enough to make a difference between going into semifinals or the grand finals.

Well if someone won 3 games and even got 4th place in their other two games, they would have easily made it into semi finals with 80 points this past season.

[DV-]

past season had way, WAY more good games than the s23, point system should not be changed anymore

about hostbots: there are plenty of bots, i just need to know which one lamas and yankz want to use for their games and i can keep adding maps there
i obviosly wont add all maps on every of 9 or 10 hostbot
first of all u guys tell me which one u want to use

[FML|red7z7]

Is there a New York bot?

[DV-]

seattle
atlanta
la
quebec
japan
fra

[ZsSuperCumulo]

if someone wins 3 consecutive games but finishing 2nd, hence getting only 60 pts then he would have missed 6 pts that are more than enough to make a difference between going into semifinals or the grand finals.

Well if someone won 3 games and even got 4th place in their other two games, they would have easily made it into semi finals with 80 points this past season.

yes, but assuming three wins not finishing first, one fourth place and one third place, this result would yield 82 points; now if we add those 6 points missed because did not finished first in his three victories, it could very well be 88 pts which would put him in a tie breaker with the 2nd place, which was alien. Of course this is just a hypothetical case, but subtracting those 2 pts from the winner and giving it to the 1st place finisher doesn't seem right to me. I did like better previous season where winner got to keep his full points, 25, and the 1st place finisher got only an extra point that would help him if it came to tie breaker, and not be used as accumulative bonuses to sneak his way into semi final despite having won less games than other players.

By the way @FML|WorpeX , it's not that I hated this season's system, but I think it would be ideal to prioritize those who win, regardless of how they win. Instead we are penalizing them in a small way and rewarding those who although may have played well, ultimately did not have what it takes to win the game. The way I see is like this, imagine you are my boss and you give me a task and you wanted done yesterday, so I come back three hours later and give you a bunch of papers with meaningless results, you ask me "hey what is this?" and I reply "well It's all I could find on it, look it may not be complete and is not exactly what you asked for, but it's something". You would fire my ass off rather than "reward me" for my effort.
This is exactly what we are doing here, rewarding those who played well or got to tome someone who was a lower tier, hence having the advantage throughout most of the game while ultimately failing to achieve victory which is the whole purpose of playing.
In my opinion the old system made much more sense and was plain simple.