Why there are a lack of Orc players achieving top results

[SteppinRazor]

I would argue that human and elf are better "designed" for winning FML games, human especially.  I think they are the most well-rounded races at every point of FFA (early game, late game etc) and have great units.  Orc is far behind in terms of macro early game, and often leads them to be broke most of the game especially if they are rushed.  And honestly, any ud/hu/elf would be stupid not to rush a close spawn orc or they give up that advantage. Undead is the weakest once everyone has 5/5/5+, and I am still surprised undead players win in FML so often, with the exception of maga of course <3

[darkermirror]

missing out is towers
as orc you need to tower more.
however lumber sucks especially in 4ways which now have earlier 3-1 teaming to make later solos more even.

I remember lel and even plush and nline had more towers everywhere.
makes 80 food orc very strong
imo alch tc sh should be used more. RLY strong combo with orc that helps it beat its weakenss of heavy air and air

[SteppinRazor]

The sum of orc problems starts with early game macro IMO.  Basically, 3 things can happen:

1) Get 80 rushed and die
2) Get 80 rushed, survive, but be screwed in gold.  Even if you can peace, someone else will probably hit you since no one wants to let an orc hoard/mass expos
3) No one rushes you, so you have option to do whatever you need to (bank 50, go 80 etc)

I would argue that most players probably don't scout well enough or build appropriate armies.  It's true that you cant get your 'perfect' 80 food army ready before an undead or human can hit you with 80, but you can mass bats or wyv/spirit walker to enough efficiency to be able to resist getting rushed out

[ZsSuperCumulo]

We just saw Tyrant wreck geass in game 1, orc in the right hands can pwn anyone at any given time.

[plush.]

There's two major parts.

The first part is one other people have touched on: Every other race has a huge incentive to kill Orcs early. Although HU players can potentially fight Orc players straight-up in the late game, it's very, very micro intensive to pull off whereas timely rushes are not. NE is so susceptible to bats. UD practically auto-loses the late game to the extent that it feels incredibly redundant to mention it again.

The second is many orc build orders are really limited at mitigating rushes. From what I've been able to watch periodically since I stopped playing, most orc players tend to not prioritize what's most helpful against rushes, like boots on a BM, getting 1 walker out early for spirit-link, and especially fortified towers. The first two buttons that need to get pushed the second after T3 completes should be the hotkey for one's war-mill and D for reinforced defenses - every game. That was one of my rules and I didn't even play when there was more than 2 players that would regularly rush orcs in a given season.

[b100death]

orc is the weakest race in the protection, suck towers, suck hp/armor buildings. what is range towers can do vs 100limit, or mass tnaks or 2 players? its nothing..
Look how geas defense vs 2 players, big armor buildings, good towers, hard to break..Hum best race in defense
some vs ne, base with moonwels  and protectors - hard break
So having the weakest protection what orc must do vs teaming !?

[letshavesomefun]

We just saw Tyrant wreck geass in game 1, orc in the right hands can pwn anyone at any given time.


geass did poorly first game he was at 1k when the war with tyrant started and did lose mk am before the first fight. this had nothing to do with tyrant beeing orc and you know it cumulo. screaming orc imbalance when a 80 food army beats 3 heroes only is complete bs (i hope you read this too laxu) iam also not saying that we could see how weak orc is in second game since tyrant played awful especially in army composition. this discussion simply is ment to analyze why there are no good orc players left and the major points were already mentioned. the major problem is that a 3way rarely includes 3 skilled players lately. its usually 2 bad ones you face who will team you to death cuz they suck and know they cant beat you otherwise. or 1 good and 1 bad player when the good player will use the bad player to kill you and after that kill him. the only way to stop the bad player from beeing a puppet would be losing to him on purpose wich is not the style of an orc player! we have honor and dignity and we wanna fight and win by ourselfes. not like these ugly undeads and elfs always teaming hiding armies mass chatting and killing buildings.

it doesnt mather if we are succesfull or not in fml

WE ARE THE MASTER RACE

let these scrubs cry about "imbalance" and keep on teaming!
deep inside they know they suck and are an embarrasment for their own shitty elf and undead races.

If it takes 2 other races to bring us down so be it.

THIS IS ORC!
TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[b100death]

Guys orcs ever won FML ?

[letshavesomefun]

yeah in ancient times!

[Pinballmap]

F-l-y randomed Orc and sk2flash played orc in finals (normally hes ud)

[Magadansky]

Lol at orc being the suckiest race in protection. Even bigger lol at Shave's attempts to make orc appear weak and its teaming unjustified. :D

[SteppinRazor]

Yeah, orc base is ridiculous with proper tower placement.  Not to mention if the orc has an 100 army hanging out there as well...  Obviously hu can take down an orc base easily, but undead definitely has the weakest base and elf base is only hard to break with an elf army defending it.  Orc with enough towers can easily pump out mass bats or whatever in the time an opponent shows up, esp if undead.

Also, I think orc is the second best race in terms of dealing with teaming (obviously hu is best).  Mobile army, good scouting, can take on consecutive fights being able to delay fighting second opponent with towers while bats reproduce.  Watch some old replays, players like Ludix or LW controlled teaming well basically controlling the map (which you can actually do if you scout) and just constantly pressuring with 100 food armies on opponents.  Most players these days just cry about teaming and roll over.

[letshavesomefun]

maga please this is a topic from orc players for orc players.

Keep your blasphemy for "why 80 food undeads cant beat a 3hero guy without losing everything" topic

[letshavesomefun]

the best race to avoid teaming is undead! why? have you ever seen an undead or elf getting teamed to death? me neither! You only get teamed to death if you are orc and sometimes if you are human. human have mass tp to handle teaming orcs dont. so hardest race to survive teaming is obv orc.

[zTsoso]

Problem for orc is that their units are relatively weak. They miss great units like tanks, mass tp or level 3 masonry to deal with teaming effectively. It's hard for orcs to survive teaming - especially if they get teamed by two air armies.  Plus everyone wants an orc out before hero arena because their heroes are insane.

I believe the solution to this problem is to play smart instead of "just strong" :p