Solve the situation!

[Lightweight!]

After i lost a game on market vs two humans, which can happen ofc  , i want to ask you guys how you would solve the following situation as orc against two humans on market square.
After some action the situation is the following while having in your mind they are both skilled:

  nr°1 am 6,mk 5, pala 4
  nr°2 bmage 7,mk 6, pala 5
  nr°3 dr 9, tc 9, sh 8

  nr°1 hoarded a little over 20k,  nr°2 has about 16k. Both have bases that would need at least 2x100 supply armys to conquer one of them.
Orc base is also a good turtle base with towers around, but he is down to 5k by human's cooperation.
Orc sitting in his base with 100 supply and he can see with wards that the humans are heading with 100 supply army's to his base at 5pm from both sides, because they seem scared of his hero levels, although its obvious they both farmed much more gold than the orc.

Now my question: How can you solve this situation for yourself to stay in the game with good chances?
If you cant imagine the situation you can download on ffareplays 

[Q-veta]

My suggestion is that the orc should switch to a race that's less imba and that won't get him automatically teamed.

[rygorych]

It's one of those "life's not fair" situations.

HU is much better in FFA than Orc (and any other race really). When there is only one HU in game, they are easy to deal with, just gang them up and don't let them recover. When there are 2 HU,  you are fucked, plain and simple. They know they are OP, they won't gang each other, they'll just team against others and then battle it out HUvsHU on what they consider even terms.

Solution: just suicide one of them. Because you are not winning against 2 in a 3-way.

Also, when facing 2 HU I have a protocol of a sort:
-Never attack 4th player
-Try and ally with the 4th player to gang up vs HU

Let's say you it's ORC/HU/HU/UD

Even if Ud is near me, I'll convince him to make peace vs the 2 HU. Hit them with early 80 and potentially kill 1 of them. Then treat it like a normal 3 way. Or better yet, don't make it a 3 way and continually farm off them at some point UD might die, then you are on your own and need to kill off one of the HU FAST, and turn it into final 1v1 at which point Orc > Hu. HU's strength is in the 3 way. Don't let them exploit that :)

[Lightweight!]

@rygo: i think your right, its impossible to defend your base against 2 humans cuz your base will fall due to tanks/flamestrike. Maybe i should have just tried to kill one, but it is nearly impossible to kill a humans base when he is 100 supply too.
Btw you are right that humans are the strongest race. Why always humans win fml? Because their bases have mass HP, towers make it most times impossible to kill with good macro and they can switch their armys very easy and fast.
If an elf,ud or orc loses his base its kinda gg (just look at season 10 finals), but the human doesnt have that problem cuz he never loses his base 

[Q-veta]

You can "switch armies fast" with every race, you just need BUILDINGS to do that and every other race has BUILDINGS. As for the human base, it's not that hard to kill with shockwave (of course then you couldn't abuse your hex/stomp "skill") or that's how it was when I played random. The reason you are teamed is because if an orc and human have the same food and fight the orc will most likely win. Same goes with undead vs orc. Elf could be tricky I suppose but mass bats can kill elf.

[Lightweight!]

@q-veta: humans are overpowered as hell when fully teched. Shockwave human base will need 100 years and you will only kill the towers most times. Humans win so many games, because they can make good 3 hero action in the end and mass tp helps much to win a baserace. Masonry is a big factor why humans win so many ffa's. If there wouldnt be masonry im sure maga would have won the fml-finals.

[rygorych]

There is no denying that HU is best race in FFA by far, but just remember a few things:

1.FFA = team HU
2.After HU is dead, team Orc
3.fight it out

ALWAYS team up vs HU. After there is no HU, team Orc. It's that simple. Of course unless they are shitty orcs like me, then don't team them.

[FML|Renaud]

You go under.sta style, it works very well in those situation (or at least it feels fun even if you die)
"OK, I SUICIDE THE NEXT ONE TO HIT ME"
(ofc this is not as effective now-days, since most player think suicide is the same thing as going 100 and attacking... ITS NOT!)

Chances are they will both go to you, all you need to check is who hit you first, once you know that, you run out of your main and kill him, ignore the other guy (thats what a suicide is)

If you're really lucky, the 2nd one will back away when he sees your suiciding
If you're lucky, none of them will attack
If you're unlucky, you get to go down with the guy that made you lose

=====================================================

Or, if you want a more traditional approach;
when you see them move, you go straight for one of them, kill him or make him tp, then either run back to your main, or tp back, in order to defend vs the 2nd one

Chances are you will easily win the first battle (even if you don't have your towers backing you up, you have better heroes, and orc has the strongest army)  And the 2nd one should also be easy since you have 100 towers backing you up

=====================================================

ps: killing yellows peasant when you guys were peace just because "he din't need them anymore" will get you in war, he din't back-stabbed you, you back-stabbed him

[Q-veta]

@q-veta: humans are overpowered as hell when fully teched. Shockwave human base will need 100 years and you will only kill the towers most times. Humans win so many games, because they can make good 3 hero action in the end and mass tp helps much to win a baserace. Masonry is a big factor why humans win so many ffa's. If there wouldnt be masonry im sure maga would have won the fml-finals.

Towers have 650 HP so you need 3 shockwaves and a few attacks or 4 shockwaves to kill a bunch of towers. Now since the map you played on had a mana fountain you can pretty much kill all of your opponents towers easily. If human was really overpowered they'd have no problem beating orc in an equal food fight. Of course the opposite is true and orc pretty much will win every fight if it's equal food equal heroes. I got rank 1 and I barely used Archmage. Plus you've got wards all over the map it's not hard to prevent mass teleport unless the map is huge like Gold Rush.

The reason you lost was because you were way too aggressive. I would have teamed you to death too.

[FML|Renaud]

Well, about the overpowered / here is my point of view

When i play , i rather face
When i play , i rather face
When i play , i rather face
I don't play enough to make a statement

[Q-veta]

When you play as orc you don't want to fight orcs either because mass tauren vs mass tauren is really boring 

[KiLLyoSeLF]

Here is the reality:

Ork & human when played by a top player are hard to beat. (By top player, I'm talking micro.) Elf & undead played by a top player are still beatable. So, logically, the imba race is either ork or human. But only one: ork. How do I know this? Not by looking at FML games, where top micro can make any army look amazing. I look at regular/average players using each race.

With ork, even a noob can look good. While the likes of DasElend & DarKNeSS can micro ork and make it look amazing, a noob can still use hexastomp, tricaster & bats to "play well" without much micro required.

On the other hand, an average human player is pretty easy to beat. The army/unit combos are pretty straight forward (OMG TANKS!). It's only when a top player with large variety of army combos uses human that it looks imba.

Oh and ebo only thinks human is imba because he sucks with it. Not trying to insult. Just the reality. There is a reason he uses ork, and the reason is exactly what I just outlined in the previous two paragraphs; he doesn't have the micro (which he admits), so ork covers that up, where as using human exposes it.

By the way, weren't the 10 guys that went into the semi-finals/finals last season:

3 humans
2 orcs
2 random
3 undead

Maybe the only thing we can agree on is NE blows?

[FML|Renaud]

I made a topic once with the winners and participation of races in the finals

elf never won, and are almost never present

[Q-veta]

Oh and ebo only thinks human is imba because he sucks with it.

Is there a race he doesn't suck with?

[DarKNeSSCaLLs]

When you play as orc you don't want to fight orcs either because mass tauren vs mass tauren is really boring 

Hmm actually it's my favorite matchup 
But probably because you know what unit composition you need to use and all you have to focus on is having superior micro to your opponent. And usually I can outmicro my opponent. I'm sure that's different in other mirrors like HU vs HU, but in orc it's almost always gonna be the same for mirror (mass cow sex).