Need replay analysis

[thehungersite]

http://www.wcreplays.com/replay.php?m=View&rid=87139

Ok, I was wondering what I could do better in this game, win or not (red orc). I thought I played fairly well for most of it, and some of those guys had really good stats, but I felt like if one tiny thing went differently (if they'd wised up and teamed me more), I'd have been screwed, and it should've been much more secure for how the game went.

1.) I've deduced I'm seriously BAD at fighting elf armies, specifically 3/3 chippo with high level heroes, because they can just attack move for massive damage while I'm trying to lay all sorts of heal wards and shit down. I'm talking about the fight around the 33' mark, that's what I need the MOST help on, even knowing the position wasn't maybe 100% "ideal" (But especially when there's the looming threat of a human with mass tanks/mortars. Mass bats/wyvs and shit, which you need for chippo, don't help counter those at all! I know FFA is about balancing counters, but this might be the most egregious example/hardest counter in the game)

2.) The last 20 mins is just some guy spamming mass TP on me. Didn't handle it too well.

3.) I'm rusty and this was my first FFA game back in awhile, but this game basically  perfectly encapsulates every problem I have in FFA games. I did realize Alchy 3rd ended up being a big waste.

4.) Was going 100 a mistake? Wasn't sure how else to counter a harassing high lvl tinker and 80-100 in chippo with a tanker looming, but it left me sorely short on gold and possibly vulnerable to a game-ending attack if the HU had smartly teamed me with tank.

[Persuade]

If no one else gets to it before me I'll watch it when I get home in about 6 hours.

[FML|Renaud]

This is my view as an elf player

-Fighting chippo
If you have bats/wyv, you must bat the hippo, then kill the chims with wyvs
If you only have bats/tauren or bats/bats then you must ignore the hippoes and bat the chims

in your case, you batted the chims, and then the hippoes destroyed the wyvs with no problems (also it's better if you can send all your bats at once, doesn't give the time for the elf to pop his scrolls of resurection)

also always better if you try to hit him a bit with your heroes only, then run away, to get him to chase you, which will get all his air unit in a nice pack that can all die together to bats

[Persuade]

to expand on this, dont be afraid to just spam hex on chims before the actual fight, force them to either waste abolish mana or fight down a chim or two.


Good elves will carry around 2 or so dryads just for this, which is good, because that's 1 less chim you need to bat!

[FML|Renaud]

well in this case he din't actually have an SH (he took alch 3rd)

[Persuade]

well in this case he din't actually have an SH (he took alch 3rd)

yikes

i wouldn't do that, sh is like the best utility hero in the game

[thehungersite]

to expand on this, dont be afraid to just spam hex on chims before the actual fight, force them to either waste abolish mana or fight down a chim or two.


Good elves will carry around 2 or so dryads just for this, which is good, because that's 1 less chim you need to bat!

Yeah, I definitely was regretting that I couldn't do this during the middle of the game.

But during the actual battle, is it usually better to hex chims or an elf hero? (specifically one that can singlehandedly mess up your wyvs, like an orbed DH or Panda). When there are no dryads, it lasts a lot longer on the chims and takes 5 food out of the battle for an extended time, but I'm not sure which is preferred, all things equal.

And as far as army composition, is it still important to get a walker vs chippo (same question goes for facing the rare pure gryphon/hawk)? With an 80 food army, to fit all the wyvs and bats, plus all your peons (no shredder) and tri hero,  chances are you must skip something. I skip the kodo too usually vs chippo.

Thanks guys.

[SteppinRazor]

After multiple FML games failing as orc I have come to the conclusion that wyverns are terrible units in most situations.

Tauren bat caster all day err day, if he has any hippos wyverns are worthless.  bat the chims, and make use of hex and stomp to disable his panda as much as possible.  also a great idea to hex chims as others pointed out, i guess its just situational depending on whats going on in the battle.  make sure you are prebuffed and have wards dropped (stun wards are great and somewhat underused) and move casters back because panda and chims kill them instantly.  one of the select situations were mass wyvs is effective is if he switches to all chims as a counter to mass bats, still need to be wary of panda though   

BM TC SH beats any hero combo elf can throw at you (ofc if his heros outlevel yours this can change).  if you have good micro abusing some hit and run with heroes can be effective, especially trying to snipe chims with imba purge orb. 

[Persuade]

33 minute fight, specifically.


You are the aggressor here, why didn't you prebuff? 

You were 100 and he was 80, it should have been an easy fight, just think about the situation in small terms, does he have a lot of chims or hippos?  If he has a lot of hippos, just bat/acid the chims + focus them down, if he has a lot of chims, just bat/acid the hippos + focus the rest with wyverns.

You have endurance aura + bloodlust, don't be afraid to kite. If you can, its always best to bat once units are clumped, and the best way to clump hippos is to have them focus wyverns.  When you see the hippos dart in, that's your cue to acid bomb + bat away, then he should have maybe 2-3 red hippos left, just shift click and keep kiting vs the chims.   

[thehungersite]

I don't think I was fully committed to or sure about fighting, with him having several ancients in front, and a lot of units in his own right (and lvl 7 Tinker, dictates the position and absorbs a lot of attack move with the goblins and ancients). I didn't even know it was 100 vs 80 because in my opinion it was a "deceiving" 100 vs 80. He only had 2 heroes on that map and far fewer bases at that point, so he had much less pop invested in workers/heroes, and a shit-ton invested in chims/hippos. He nearly had as many chims as you'd have in a 100 food army with more bases, or so it seemed. So sometimes 80 with a lot fewer workers can look sort of like a 100 with lots of workers, no?

If he has a lot of hippos, just bat/acid the chims + focus them down

Wouldn't this mean the hippos would just roll all your wyvs? Or you're referring to eschewing wyvs completely and just using bats for chims? (see SteppinRazor)

Thanks for the feedback as always.

[Persuade]

If he has a lot of hippos, just bat/acid the chims + focus them down

Wouldn't this mean the hippos would just roll all your wyvs? Or you're referring to eschewing wyvs completely and just using bats for chims? (see SteppinRazor)

Thanks for the feedback as always.

if they're prebuffed, spirit link + heal wave will allow them to tank the hippos while you kill the chims, of course you'll eventually have to run them away, which is where lust + endurance come in handy.  It's similar to ud vs elf when they have like 4-5 chims and rest hippo, just nuke/focus the chims and then stone form.  Nuke/bat/kite the chims then run away with all your air.  Once it becomes a ground game orc should never lose