I don't think I was fully committed to or sure about fighting, with him having several ancients in front, and a lot of units in his own right (and lvl 7 Tinker, dictates the position and absorbs a lot of attack move with the goblins and ancients). I didn't even know it was 100 vs 80 because in my opinion it was a "deceiving" 100 vs 80. He only had 2 heroes on that map and far fewer bases at that point, so he had much less pop invested in workers/heroes, and a shit-ton invested in chims/hippos. He nearly had as many chims as you'd have in a 100 food army with more bases, or so it seemed. So sometimes 80 with a lot fewer workers can look sort of like a 100 with lots of workers, no?
Quote from: Persuade
If he has a lot of hippos, just bat/acid the chims + focus them down
Wouldn't this mean the hippos would just roll all your wyvs? Or you're referring to eschewing wyvs completely and just using bats for chims? (see SteppinRazor)
to expand on this, dont be afraid to just spam hex on chims before the actual fight, force them to either waste abolish mana or fight down a chim or two.
Good elves will carry around 2 or so dryads just for this, which is good, because that's 1 less chim you need to bat!
Yeah, I definitely was regretting that I couldn't do this during the middle of the game.
But during the actual battle, is it usually better to hex chims or an elf hero? (specifically one that can singlehandedly mess up your wyvs, like an orbed DH or Panda). When there are no dryads, it lasts a lot longer on the chims and takes 5 food out of the battle for an extended time, but I'm not sure which is preferred, all things equal.
And as far as army composition, is it still important to get a walker vs chippo (same question goes for facing the rare pure gryphon/hawk)? With an 80 food army, to fit all the wyvs and bats, plus all your peons (no shredder) and tri hero, chances are you must skip something. I skip the kodo too usually vs chippo.
Ok, I was wondering what I could do better in this game, win or not (red orc). I thought I played fairly well for most of it, and some of those guys had really good stats, but I felt like if one tiny thing went differently (if they'd wised up and teamed me more), I'd have been screwed, and it should've been much more secure for how the game went.
1.) I've deduced I'm seriously BAD at fighting elf armies, specifically 3/3 chippo with high level heroes, because they can just attack move for massive damage while I'm trying to lay all sorts of heal wards and shit down. I'm talking about the fight around the 33' mark, that's what I need the MOST help on, even knowing the position wasn't maybe 100% "ideal" (But especially when there's the looming threat of a human with mass tanks/mortars. Mass bats/wyvs and shit, which you need for chippo, don't help counter those at all! I know FFA is about balancing counters, but this might be the most egregious example/hardest counter in the game)
2.) The last 20 mins is just some guy spamming mass TP on me. Didn't handle it too well.
3.) I'm rusty and this was my first FFA game back in awhile, but this game basically perfectly encapsulates every problem I have in FFA games. I did realize Alchy 3rd ended up being a big waste. 4.) Was going 100 a mistake? Wasn't sure how else to counter a harassing high lvl tinker and 80-100 in chippo with a tanker looming, but it left me sorely short on gold and possibly vulnerable to a game-ending attack if the HU had smartly teamed me with tank.
Ahh, didn't see the sign-ups ended Friday part. I was gone all day so I couldn't sign up, but I discovered I'm fully available to play Sunday and would love to give it a go. Is it still too late to sign up if you haven't reached the 160 max? Could I be at the front of the line for day-of-event spots?
This is unfortunate, I don't see how splitting the FFA community can be a good thing. Obviously I'm not privy to whatever drama did or didn't go on, but maybe you were just stressed out and needed a break. Hopefully it's not just a power struggle thing. Any plans to explain why you even left so abruptly? Frankly "I did my time in FML" makes it sound like a prison, adding to the "stressed out" questions.
Seems to be the case 99% of the time with these sudden upheavals or withdrawals from something (stressed and saying fuck it I'm leaving/quitting/doing it on my own my way/etc.). It seemed like things were going so well for this to all of a sudden happen. But if the FFA community continues to grow stronger/bigger, I guess I'm all for it. -shrug-
I'm 90% sure it used to be in the Blizzard map folders, but somehow it's gone. I remember it so distinctly because, well, what makes it so special, you say? MOTHERFUCKING GOBLIN SHIPYARDS. Yes, naval warfare. Just imagine the possibilities, the mayhem, it's so right for the madness that is FFA. Please just check it out as a potential candidate for a fun map to show up every blue moon! The layout is so cool.
lol shouldn't Market Square be removed too then under the tree reasoning. ;p That'd be pure blasphemy, but it's always sad when any map bites the dust when it's always fun to be playing on something different. Is there a limit or something on the total amount of maps that can be rotated?
Enakro's Way was another different one that seemingly disappeared, it's blizz official so it bypasses the custom map issues. It was super fun to play on tons of ladder maps like it that I'd never played on before. Was it perfectly balanced, probably not, but these maps had so much personality/uniqueness.
The old standby Tranquil Paths would make for some interesting FFA games too IMO (that mine in the middle of the map in the trees is a perfect example of a rad distinctive feature). OH AND PREDATORS. HOLY SHIT THAT MAP WAS SO TIGHT. (the cross shape mapped with fountains, used to be on ladder, balance be damned, those unique maps are so much fun!)
I don't know if too many people are skipping FFA games because they think a map is too imbalanced, otherwise Savage Storm wouldn't be in it (dem creeps). What I do when I really don't like a map or think it's imbalanced against my race (see Savage Storm) is just wait a minute and a new one is up. People who are really concerned with stats/balance can still skip ones they don't like, so it seems like the more random, viable maps like Enakro's or Swamp of Sorrows, the better. I and many others honestly had the most chaotic fun with FFA when it seemed like you were experimenting and putting some quite random ones in, ugri. In a controlled setting of a league it might be different but balance will never be achieved in an 8 man bot ffa. That's the beauty of having so many chaotic maps, there was always something different you can choose from since FFA is so popular now. But when Deadlock and Silverpine and Frozen Deeps (still the only custom I'm seeing for some reason) keep coming up it does get a little stale, can't complain too much though.
There are a whole lot of maps where trees could be added though. Think of how AWFUL Monsoon can be for wood, it even tends to run out a lot anywhere close, which gives elves a huge advantage. But it would be pretty extreme to edit Monsoon in any way. Same goes for removing Hell Square but I think I was elf/UD when I played it (usually pretty solid on wood, wisps/ghoul frenzy!) Some of these shortcomings give maps flavor that you must play around instead of being totally game-breaking like the Frozen Deeps spawn locations.
I wouldn't throw the whole map out with the bathwater especially for visually stunning/creative ones like Hell Square, unless one spawn has like literally a fraction of the lumber
Yeah, the automated message each game about adding FML-Host to friends to always know the game names when they're unlisted helps a lot. For the most part the fill times of custom map games are not that bad even not appearing on the lists. The more that can be drilled in the more it helps ("Some games won't appear on the LIST! /f add FML-Host!" the phrasing might be key since some people aren't the best at Ingles or following instructions if you just tell them to add it)
twisted meadows and emerald are played a lot by the league already, but modified versions.
Frozen deeps has the error at 3 o clock as well, so might want to have the maker check every spawn.
This would be really cool. The bot plebeians want to play the same fun maps as the pros ;)
I thought Hell Square was just a carbon copy of MS other than the creeps/tileset, but that's unfortunate with the wood thing...if only a few trees could be added here and there, that map is really unique thus fun.
I was aware of the Garena/appearing on the list issues, and I added FML-Host as recommended (I play on East), but I hadn't seen any of these maps period, even despite doing that. Maybe just very bad luck (considering I've played 60+ games in the past weeks) if you guys have indeed seen them in the rotation recently. I was just doublechecking it wasn't a glitch where they weren't even showing up, so has anyone found a game on them recently to confirm? (particularly Harvest of Sorrow, another shout out to my boy Worpex)
IDK what's wrong with Duststorm... Super uniquely shaped/fun map where you can craftily use zeppelins better than on any other map. That uniqueness is pretty fun imo but if it's hated I guess it's hated. Maybe it would be better with 4 players instead of 6 or w/e since the natural expos are kind of exposed?
The top left spawn of "Frozen Deeps," the spawn of the hall is bugged, as you can see above. The hall is a country mile away from the mine, so you need at least 6 peons on the mine to get full output. I had 5 and I was wondering why I had like no gold for the longest time. Ruins any build order, where every point of food is crucial, and also is slanted toward UD/Elf whom it doesn't affect. This map also seems to be the only custom map that keeps spawning over and over and not appearing/filling, under the games simply titled "FFA #." I really miss Harvest of Sorrow, Deamonheim, Hell Square, Dalaran, Springwater Harbor, and some of the other really cool maps that used to show up. Not sure if games on those have to be manually made, but it seems like only the Deadlocks/Silverpines/Market Squares/Murguls of the world are coming up in the rotation now with any regularity. I'm not sure if it's just luck of the draw since I've seen about 10 Frozen Deeps in the last week and 0 of any of those other wild, unique maps.
I guess I might as well use this opportunity to mention some maps that could be fun for FFA at times.
(click to show/hide)
Twisted Meadows (you know you love to hate it, but it makes for a different, interesting brand of FFA not just hinging on mass expoing/hoarding due to the mine constraints. Very fresh change of pace)
Lost Temple (ice/classic)
Emerald Shores
Emerald Gardens (8 man, like how Raging Stream is 10P but has 8 slots)
Last Man Standing
Stone Cold Mountain
Duskwood
Petrified Forest, Riverrun, et al.
Also, what happened to maps like Shamrock Reef, Duststorm, Sunrock Cove, Copper Canyon, et al.? Has anyone played any of these in recent days? I never realized how much I missed Copper Canyon till it's "gone" (just haven't seen it in eons, I was wondering if it got removed or the whole rotation got pared down recently, since they're apparently not showing up). In my opinion the more maps the merrier -- variety was the spice of FFA, but I keep getting the Deadlocks and "standard" Blizzard approved FFA maps repeatedly. It was really fun when it the maps were like a box of chocolates never knowing what you're gonna get and you sometimes had to have a totally unique strategy and creeping approach to each different map (e.g. saw game with ashalar burrow creeping on Harvest of Sorrow -- what other map would that happen on?).
To me, an FFA map need only require about 2 expos per player and relatively wide, even spacing (that rules out some otherwise interesting 4v4 maps like Deadlands).
Even if some aren't perfectly balanced for "pro" play -- Usually all map balance is thrown out the window in 6-8P bot FFA's because you'll get a guy rushing or something. Seksi said it best:
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I've had the most fun in some of these games because it really brings out all the elements of FFA and skill... FML league games are very structured and full of chatting and manipulation as key elements. Early game peace, shared expos, coordinated teaming etc. In public FFAs (or ladder in the day) these things were thrown out the window which made it a real free for all, anything goes mentality. Some games were much less fortunate then others and you had to battle through adversity and crazy circumstances. That's cool and a big thing that the FML games sorely miss out out now... so I'm glad to see this ladder. The community will have a lot of fun in these games that fully encompass the skill and strategy of FFA. =D
There's always a wrench thrown into it and that's the beauty of it. Variety makes it amazingly fun and the same old ladder maps keep coming up. Who's with me?
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Super uniquely shaped/fun map where you can craftily use zeppelins better than on any other map. That uniqueness is pretty fun imo but if it's hated I guess it's hated. Maybe it would be better with 4 players instead of 6 or w/e since the natural expos are kind of exposed?
