FFA Masters League
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ugri2 on October 25, 2012, 12:58:37 pm
-
After battling LW and Maga on Hurricane, I checked the replay Parser to get information on the micro actions we did. I need some help to understand some facts.
To what refer these following actions :
- Basic Commands
- Select / Deselect
- Select Subgroup
When I compare the apm on a 3h game, I get 81 while they have 150+.
Maga has twice more right click than me, LW 50% more.
Are these right click of any use or it is just to keep you focused before battle?
I have way more "basic commands" than you two (380 vs 120 / 78). What is it that I use too much to micro probably that i shouldnt?
I am REALLY trying to improve my micro these last weeks but I am sure that there are just habits that I have which fucks me up.
---------------------------------------------------
Also could someone tell me how to hotkey the inventory (id like to use the wheel mouse buton to staff)
thks!
-
Download warkeys, they have a feature in that for hotkeying your inventory to a mouse button.
As for the micro stuff, the key thing is large battles. I read somewhere to have a system when doing large battles and to keep going through that system during a fight. First, check your heroes and micro acordingly, then your first control group, second, etc etc and then back to the heroes again. Having a system keeps you from freezing during the battle and being like "uhhhhh what do!?".
Granted, thats all theory, and Its way easier said then done. I never could get the hang of it. haha
-
What is this micro you speak of?
-
What is this micro you speak of?
Mb it's the key to beating mass fd?
-
What is this micro you speak of?
Mb it's the key to beating mass fd?
Huh, maybe. Or maybe the key is just to hunt rush someone who consistently masses fds.
-
Can you not troll this please ~~
-
I am not using any programms except from wc3.exe while playing. I tried to play with warkeys some years ago but i didnt like it. So i still play with the standart keys. I know every hotkey with hum/orc and lab/shop/merc keys. Neither is use the numpad.
When i have 100 supply i controll 3 groups with orc (sometimes 4 when i have bats and wyvern, bats seperate) and 4-5 with human. Human is a bit more difficult when i use gyros, because they take 2 groups easily and they require much micro.
For example i fight you in a 100vs100 battle orc vs ud i do the following order:
1. Casting lust/link/heal wards/stasis trap
2. Blow bats into your air
3. Micro wyvern to hit air or heros
4. Use hero abilities
5. Scrolls/Invu
My biggest problem is huge ud/elf air armies with mass hippo/garg, because i can't target heros with a hex. Sometimes i hex a garg and all my focus is for ass. On 50-80 supply orc is probably the strongest race.
Edit: Also since the dark ranger is a huge problem for orc, i always try to keep a walker in the back of my army to disenchant the silence even if i lose my lust/link. If you cant use hex/stomp/wards in a battle you will lose 80 % of the fights.
-
I know to improve my micro I downloaded UD Micro trainer and typed in "I want to play like sweet", which handicaps your army on each level by 60% hp I think.
In real games position is probably the most important. Spamming right click is useful in different ways in early vs late game i think. Early game if I have dk 4 fiends vs blademaster 4 grunts, I don't just micro the fiend that is being attacked back, I move every fiend in an opposite direction, so that when the orc stops targeting the one fiend he has to walk twice as far to begin attacking my other fiend. This requires a lot of right clicking obviously and allows me to get extra hits on while he runs around and I can micro the fiends back before they even get hit.
In big fights (100/100) the most important thing is unit positioning. Make sure the units hotkeyed together do the same type of dmg(piercing for example). If you have destro shift click them on the grunts very quickly if you can. I micro my heroes in battles and I got to go now so ask me if u need help bye.
-
It is curious that "solo pros" like duck/rain/starshaped (although starshaped is a medium player in my eyes) should be better in 100 vs 100 battles, but they are not.
1. Duck keeps losing 100 vs 100 battles because he is overwhelmed with controlling more than 3 groups so he keeps being raped by 100 supply elfs.
2. Starshaped has been outclassed by me in 100vs100 fights at our market fml game last season while he was sitting behind mass towers and complaining about orc imba (unlikely no replay because it was a save).
3. Rain kept losing every 1vs1 battle against Renaud in his recent game.
The best thing to do against the solo guys is to make 100 supply armies, because this is where they feel uncomfortable. In solo they controll 30-40 supply armies with a maximum of 80 supply.
Now what is harder to micro. 50 supply armies like you do in solo all the time or 80-100 supply like in ffa?
Don't fear the solo noobs, they can't beat real ffa player with a high win percentage.
-
Solo and FFA are two different skill sets. Solo uses smaller army sizes and I guarantee you that the players with an extensive solo background will dominate in this field. In these fights the player needs to look at each and every unit and try not to lose ANY of them. This is one of the best ways to secure an economic advantage in solo.
In a 100 food battle, you need to look at the army as a whole. You can't save every single unit. Thus, players with little experience in these battles tend freeze and become overwhelmed with the army size. My background is in solo, so I have a lot of trouble in these fights as well.
Its two completely different game dynamics. Unless the player practices both gametypes, FFA players will get owned by the soloers in solo and the solo players will struggle in FFA. Neither one of them are noobs!
-
Ez:
Switch to elf and 50-60% of your army only needs to attack move!
...except vs tanks :icon_sad:
But in srsness, what Duck said about positioning is pretty key, you can ignore 90% of what lw said. I would add: even in solo positioning is absolutely pivotal, no matter how small the army. Actually controlling your units is secondary to having them in the right place. Examples: keeping your hippos out of tank range. catching ground units in a choke while using an air army. catching an air army in the open while using a ground army.
Fighting with ALL your army in range of something while inhibiting parts of their army from being in range/able to attack is the ultimate goal. If you look at my most recent game where I was fighting sparkle in his base, I was chipping at tanks while they were stuck running around the corner, all my chims were hitting, his stuff was stuck trying to move around. That's what you want to try to do in big battles AND small. The individual clicking comes after that.
-
"you can ignore 90% of what lw said"
Yeah, keep punching me. Positioning is important, but they key for winning a game is the overview. Ebo wasn't a high skilled guy, but he had a chance of winning every game he was involved, because he scouted more than anyone else.
Elf is the easiest to controll in my eyes. Throw in some hippos, move them back use scrolls, let chims attack the tanks, panda bof move back so tanks get out of range and do the same again. Tanks are a problem if you arent prepared for them and at low hero levels. In my eyes tanks aren't overpowered. They are a t3 unit and have the longest build time. We had many topics about imbaness and yes orc/hu are strong, but elf players can move their whole main and undead players can sell and easily rebuild fast everywhere. hu/orc suck at rebuilding fast.
-
Derail: start
Why would hu/orc ever need to rebuild fast? They have the best base defense~
Derail: end
Of course micro isn't everything, and big picture stuff is very important, scrolls, position, hero choice, etc, etc
But players like maga are great because they have both.
I think ugri's situation is that he feels he knows enough of the big picture stuff, and should start working on his clicking
So stop telling him the big picture stuff!!! He knows that! (right?)
Now: what the hell are you clicking and why!
I get ~85 at most, 80 of those are big picture stuff, lets work on boosting that little 5!
-
Derail: start
Why would hu/orc ever need to rebuild fast? They have the best base defense~
Derail: end
Of course micro isn't everything, and big picture stuff is very important, scrolls, position, hero choice, etc, etc
But players like maga are great because they have both.
I think ugri's situation is that he feels he knows enough of the big picture stuff, and should start working on his clicking
So stop telling him the big picture stuff!!! He knows that! (right?)
Now: what the hell are you clicking and why!
I get ~85 at most, 80 of those are big picture stuff, lets work on boosting that little 5!
always the smartest! :icon_wink:
-
UD Micro Training (http://www.epicwar.com/maps/54144/)
Human Micro Training (http://www.epicwar.com/maps/3827/)
NE Micro Training (http://www.epicwar.com/maps/40478/)
-
UD Micro Training (http://www.epicwar.com/maps/54144/)
Human Micro Training (http://www.epicwar.com/maps/3827/)
NE Micro Training (http://www.epicwar.com/maps/40478/)
ohh you subtle little man, I get it!
Cause orc doesn't need micro xD
-
Not that this is really a micro action at all, but something that I have been trying out as UD that can help (depending on how you control group your units), is putting ur DK in all of you control groups b/c it allows you to heal units much easier. In small solo size battles I definitely wouldn't do this, but when ur fighting 100v100 food it can be tough to recognize dying units by watching the screen alone so having ur DK in the same group as destroyers for example gives you the ability to heal them faster.
It can be wierd to use this at first, but I think with some getting used to it is beneficial.
Just my two cents :D
-
Not that this is really a micro action at all, but something that I have been trying out as UD that can help (depending on how you control group your units), is putting ur DK in all of you control groups b/c it allows you to heal units much easier. In small solo size battles I definitely wouldn't do this, but when ur fighting 100v100 food it can be tough to recognize dying units by watching the screen alone so having ur DK in the same group as destroyers for example gives you the ability to heal them faster.
It can be wierd to use this at first, but I think with some getting used to it is beneficial.
Just my two cents :D
So then do you never focus fire? Dk would be running every which way if you did that while focusing I would expect.
-
Its really more of a situational thing i guess. More than anything, it can be useful in huge air battles (undead mirror garg wars especially) for helping you quickly heal dying units. Main use is to have him in the same group as ur heavy air for quicker access to using coil on them. And in 100 fights, DK should usually be moving around/in the back of ur army cus he gets raped by strong melee heroes/units and the dmg he deals with his attack is pretty bad, plus he's everyone's favorite target when fighting an undead :)
EDIT: I never put him in the group I have gargs in since they are super frail and are constantly being needed to move etc, I'm just suggesting putting him in the group with ur heroes and ur heavy air/melee etc
-
some PRO tips from Steppin there everyone :icon_wink:
-
I put my Crypt Lord in all control groups because his presence is so empowering that it adds +20 attack power to every unit in its group.
-
I put my Crypt Lord in all control groups because his presence is so empowering that it adds +20 attack power to every unit in its group.
Oh Vorpex, you're so funny
-
I put my Crypt Lord in all control groups because his presence is so empowering that it adds +20 attack power to every unit in its group.
Oh Vorpex, you're so funny
I know your IP Address and I will exploit it.
-
I would say that the main reason why "solo pros" tend to do bad in these big 100vs100 fights is because of the army/hero compositions and simply not facing them enough to know how to properly counter them. Also, atleast for me, in ffa im often playing "offrace" so its harder for me to figure out the exact army composition that I would need to have to beat certain stuff.
As for micro, in fights where neither player has pure air, positioning is by far the most important thing (assuming things like hero levels/items/upgrades are somewhat the same). Even in solo games, a 70 supply army with superior position can crush a 90supply army in a matter of seconds.
-
Agreed with Rains' good thoughts.
-
50 orc army vs 90 elf too ~~
-
Get used to your control groups and hotkeys in all situations with different unit compositions. Some groups are simple (chims and heroes in 1, hippos in 2), while other groups are tougher to use when combining tanks, gyros, casters and other units or bats, casters, wyvern and other units.
Some people use F1, F2, F3 to select heroes, some people use Tab to cycle through them.
Next, especially in FFA, heroes are by far the most important micro. You should always be using hero skills first and foremost. As undead, using coil/nova/frost armor/swarm/sleep should always be first priority. A lot of times, the player with better hero use will win the battle even in bleak situations.
As others said, position is so important. Once you determine if you can win a fight (with an army composition), use hero skills and position your army. If you do those three things successfully, not much micro is needed to win the battle.
With undead, rarely should you fight straight up. Use your advantage in movement speed and nuking to constantly nova/swarm and run around. For example, if you are forced to fight straight up vs elf, most times you will lose vs panda/hippo etc. But you can nuke and then use gargs to run in and pick off hippos here and there in combo with stone form and sleep etc. Same concept when fighting tanks... or bats...
-
So, when is maga gonna see this thread and tell us how its really done?
-
So, when is maga gonna see this thread and tell us how its really done?
he told me in pm, im paying him so he doesnt reveal what is now our secret!