FFA Masters League

General => News => Topic started by: FML|red7z7 on October 27, 2016, 08:32:49 pm

Title: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: FML|red7z7 on October 27, 2016, 08:32:49 pm
 :FMLN:

We want to inform everyone of a few rule changes that will go into effect with the start of the upcoming season related to gaming platform, scheduling, and a new scoring system. The official rulebook has been updated to reflect these changes and can be found here (http://ffamasters.net/index.php?page=1).


Please note that with all rule changes, admins reserve the right to undo them or make further modifications if we find them to be ineffective.
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: ZsSuperCumulo on October 27, 2016, 09:14:18 pm
1) Platform: yes since it has proxy
2) Scheduling: yes because responsible players should decide when the games are played
3) Scoring: really?

Giving 10 pts to 4th placei is such a terrible idea, quite frankly I don't know why you guys changed the scoring system so much, seriously, tell me what was wrong with the previous format. The previous format encouraged people to play for win more than anything, or even not to finish 4th at all since it only gave 5 points. The previous system basically weeded out all the players who clearly didn't play smart enough to make it to the play offs and eventually finals, with this new system is like grouping all the 4th, 3rd and 2nd places in one big clump.

Basically what this format does, assuming four games are played, is give 40 points to 4th place while 2nd and 3rd get 48 points rofl. The difference between a four way and a three way in FFA is immense and so should be the scoring. Seriously, you do not need to make these types of drastic changes to claim "we are innovating" or "moving out of an old paradigm" what you need is to stick with what works and make little tinkering if needed to accommodate different needs. I just don't think this new scoring really reflects the nature of FFA; hell even 1st place to 3rd place are basically very close in points. I don't know man, if anything it seems that it will encourage hoarding and passiveness rather than more active games.
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: b100death on October 27, 2016, 10:01:20 pm
Giving 10 pts to 4th placei is such a terrible idea, quite frankly I don't know why you guys changed the scoring system so much, seriously, tell me what was wrong with the previous format. The previous format encouraged people to play for win more than anything, or even not to finish 4th at all since it only gave 5 points. The previous system basically weeded out all the players who clearly didn't play smart enough to make it to the play offs and eventually finals, with this new system is like grouping all the 4th, 3rd and 2nd places in one big clump.
A you sure old system play for win !? oldy system play for: not die first ! not get 5 score.
New system, like as you say 4th,3rd,2nd place in one big clump: more motivated play for win cuz too much players will have equal points. But only winners who will win game - will take place in the next round.
Imho this system better.
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: ZsSuperCumulo on October 27, 2016, 10:11:24 pm
No, when the reward (+25 pts) outweights 2nd and 3rd place by +15 pts then you really play for win. If you give literally the same amoun of points for 4th to 2nd place, then you are encouraging players to be indiferent and that if you put the extra effort to finish 1st and win the game, you'll only get 8 pts rather than +15 like we are used to.
It just sucks really, ask any champion who has a clue what FFA is all about and will demand to go back to old format.
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: b100death on October 27, 2016, 10:14:35 pm
Cumulo in 23 season, player - TOCKA_3EJIEHA9I not played two rounds. Just win 1 round of 3, and going round 4. Nice system "play for win", no competition. If you win just one game - 25 points = guarnted round 4.
Now players will be have equal points - this more motivate play for wins
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: ZsSuperCumulo on October 27, 2016, 10:37:22 pm
1 win + 5 points + other points can get u in the play offs, what's wrong with that? Those who made it to round four had the correct amount of points. Giving almost same amount of points to 4th,3rd and 2nd just seems out of this world.
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: FML|WorpeX on October 27, 2016, 11:11:14 pm
We wanted to shake things up. We've used the previous scoring system for 20 seasons, its time to try something new. There are some glaring issues which we wanted to try and address with a new scoring system. Depending on how it goes, this may very well just be a one season thing.

The standings should feel closer this season and getting last place in a match shouldn't be as catastrophic as it previously was. We are also hoping that aggression is rewarded more with this change.
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: ZsSuperCumulo on October 27, 2016, 11:24:05 pm
well, it seems that it's here to stay, but we'll see how the 1st round goes :)
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: DV- on October 28, 2016, 02:40:27 am
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: Ugrilainen on October 28, 2016, 04:04:28 am
so long my sweet point system :'(
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: Tleilaxu on October 28, 2016, 05:28:05 am
Great news. All this "muh play for win" is a bunch of bull crap. You still have to play for win, you just don't get punished if you don't want to play a 4 hour game. Beside, the reduced points for winning reduces the reward of lucky free wins and reduces the penalty for getting 4th due to unlucky spawn.
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: letshavesomefun on October 28, 2016, 07:02:19 am
i like the point system if i suicide someone in a 3way now it doesnt hurt as much pointwise
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: SteppinRazor on October 28, 2016, 07:46:15 am
New point system is worth a try for sure.  Like Worpex said, been doing the same thing for 20 seasons so switching it up will be interesting.  What I like is that the standings will be tight, but you will still need consistent good finishes to get ahead, but at the same time one bad game won't hurt you as much.  Tiebreakers are going to be crazy though
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: mrSweets on October 28, 2016, 09:34:11 am
nice change guys  :orc:
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: GEASS on October 28, 2016, 11:41:56 am
Dont like the new score system
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: Dovekie on October 28, 2016, 12:54:35 pm
Last place was always punished way too harshly. 
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: ZsSuperCumulo on October 28, 2016, 01:29:00 pm
Last place was always punished way too harshly.

and now it gets rewarded greatly :D
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: FML|Mog on October 28, 2016, 02:19:08 pm
I don't mind the point system change. I don't think it will change anything tbh, but I'm not opposed to trying something new. The only thing I really don't understand is why 1st isn't 21 points? It seems very wrong to me that two 4th place finishes = same points as 1st place. Also, if someone doesn't show to a match but informs admins they can't make it, such as in previous seasons, do they get 10 points now?
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: FML|WorpeX on October 28, 2016, 02:58:51 pm
I don't mind the point system change. I don't think it will change anything tbh, but I'm not opposed to trying something new. The only thing I really don't understand is why 1st isn't 21 points? It seems very wrong to me that two 4th place finishes = same points as 1st place. Also, if someone doesn't show to a match but informs admins they can't make it, such as in previous seasons, do they get 10 points now?

So, answer to the last question is yes, they will get 10.

To answer the first one is more complicated: While it might sound weird to say, the actual point amount changes don't matter much in the long run. A player who got last twice and second twice will still be ranked below someone who got second three times and last once. In your example, two last places will equal a first but only if that first is a non-top score first. We want to reward players for activity and showing up for games thus a higher point value for last place is needed. Winning once and no-showing the next game should not be rewarded.

What matters is the difference between each point amount and the amount of bonus the players get for highest score. For this season, we wanted one high score second place to cancel out a last place finish. It you're impressive enough, four of them will essentially turn a second place finish into a (non-top score) first.

You also have to remember that 85% of all wins will actually be 22 points and not 20, since the winner usually always gets top score.
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: SteppinRazor on October 28, 2016, 03:59:15 pm
THe one thing I do like is that there will be less separation between players in the standings so a win = a potentially huge jump aka players will HOPEFULLY value wins ever more.  For example, in previous years a player with 15 points (2nd/4th finish) would not have a chance to catch a player with 35 points (1st/2nd finish), but now these players would be separated by a much smaller gap.  In THAT aspect, the season will be more interesting because no one will "be out of it" unless they cannot win at all. 
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: FML|Mog on October 28, 2016, 04:18:56 pm
I don't mind the point system change. I don't think it will change anything tbh, but I'm not opposed to trying something new. The only thing I really don't understand is why 1st isn't 21 points? It seems very wrong to me that two 4th place finishes = same points as 1st place. Also, if someone doesn't show to a match but informs admins they can't make it, such as in previous seasons, do they get 10 points now?

So, answer to the last question is yes, they will get 10.

To answer the first one is more complicated: While it might sound weird to say, the actual point amount changes don't matter much in the long run. A player who got last twice and second twice will still be ranked below someone who got second three times and last once. In your example, two last places will equal a first but only if that first is a non-top score first. We want to reward players for activity and showing up for games thus a higher point value for last place is needed. Winning once and no-showing the next game should not be rewarded.

What matters is the difference between each point amount and the amount of bonus the players get for highest score. For this season, we wanted one high score second place to cancel out a last place finish. It you're impressive enough, four of them will essentially turn a second place finish into a (non-top score) first.

You also have to remember that 85% of all wins will actually be 22 points and not 20, since the winner usually always gets top score.


Thanks Worpex! I misunderstood, I didn't realize the +2 points for top score also applied to the winner (unlike the +1 for top score from the past system).

In that case, I agree it really won't matter in the long run. Finalists will still have to win 3 matches, and semi finalists will still have to win 1-2. scores will look closer on paper, but in reality you still need basically the same results to advance to the "postseason".
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: FML|WorpeX on October 28, 2016, 04:34:23 pm
Quote from: Mog[Skynet
]In that case, I agree it really won't matter in the long run. Finalists will still have to win 3 matches, and semi finalists will still have to win 1-2. scores will look closer on paper, but in reality you still need basically the same results to advance to the "postseason".

Exactly! The goals of the system are this:

1. Reward players for showing up for all of their matches and heavier penalties for missing a match.

2. Extra incentive to stay active in the game and less incentive on passive game-play.

3. Allow players to catch up from unlucky losses easier, and provide a clear mechanism for doing so (in this case, an expansion on the bonus point rule).

4. Getting the best players at the top of the standings!

---

In my personal opinion, I think this new system is going to make the standings and play-off race a lot more fun to watch and compete in. I also think (and hope) that it will increase the spectator value of the games. However, I don't necessarily think that this system is going to be perfect or that it is better than what we used for 20+ seasons. I do think it'll be different, fun and has a possibility of really shaking the scene up!
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: Peregrine on October 31, 2016, 04:33:46 am
I agree with Cumulo here

This new system rewards mediocrity. FFA is about winning against 4+ opponents, and this new system rewards you even if you don't win, in two ways

First it gives more points to people who get 4th, 3rd, and 2nd place than before AND on top of that it gives less points to the winner. So overall it is decreasing the value placed on WINNING.

Secondly, it now gives you extra points for having top score - which again, promotes something OTHER than winning (its based on an arbitrary point scoring system Blizzard put into the game as a gimmicky statistic - it serves no purpose and has no real bearing on the events of an FFA). So ultra aggressive play will be rewarded, regardless if you win or lose.

So its devaluing what makes FFA such a complex difficult and exciting gametype: winning at all costs

And its promoting very shallow things - gameplay style and increasing spectators. You are rewarding mediocre play and giving a handicap to players who lose often, to allow them to compete. That is pretty lame, i think. You let almost anyone play in this league, but only the winners should rise to the top. I think this scoring change will water down the games and make them a little bit more basic, more predictable, less complex and yes, probably shorter and more "action packed" - but will the best players be rewarded? Will it be real strategic action or just micro wars? If losing bravely is almost as valuable as winning, players have more incentive to suicide, to take 4th, to play more recklessly
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: Tleilaxu on October 31, 2016, 09:10:02 am
Shut the fuck up LOL
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: FML|WorpeX on October 31, 2016, 09:34:46 am
And its promoting very shallow things - gameplay style and increasing spectators. You are rewarding mediocre play and giving a handicap to players who lose often, to allow them to compete. That is pretty lame, i think. You let almost anyone play in this league, but only the winners should rise to the top. I think this scoring change will water down the games and make them a little bit more basic, more predictable, less complex and yes, probably shorter and more "action packed" - but will the best players be rewarded? Will it be real strategic action or just micro wars? If losing bravely is almost as valuable as winning, players have more incentive to suicide, to take 4th, to play more recklessly

Trust me, I fully understand your concern and we take all feedback into account. From a players-perspective, I can totally see where you're coming from.

We just ask you to keep an open mind and give it a chance before writing it off completely. None of the admins are trying to ruin FFA or make winning less valuable. Just remember that this is a one season trial - it may or may not be the scoring system past this season.

Yes, we are trying to make the game a little bit more accessible to spectators - we have been very vocal and clear about that. Broadcasting and shoutcasting have been a big push for us and it has become extremely popular with FML fans. The changes were done to continue to make them possible and to draw in more casual fans. It may seem shallow, but we believe it to be important for the league and FFA's future.

Again, just keep an open mind and give it a chance for a season! I don't think we've done anything (lately) to not have some faith in the direction and future that we're trying to take!
Title: Re: Rules and Scoring System Updates
Post by: Peregrine on October 31, 2016, 02:49:47 pm
Definitely have an open mind - and maybe like Mog said it won't affect standings too much

it would be cool to have more spectators and exciting games, i was just concerned at the potential cost to the integrity of FFA as a whole

but it was just a potential prediction, lets see what happens, excited for the season!