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Author Topic: Dropping The Banhammer.  (Read 13602 times)

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Offline FML|WorpeX

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Dropping The Banhammer.
« on: December 21, 2011, 09:22:59 PM »
:FMLN:

Sadly, after the events of M28, two players have been found cheating and will immediately be removed from the league. :USA: DarkMessiah and :Canada: Walking.TrL were found pre-teaming before the match and continued to follow up on their plan DURING the game. Thus, the two players have immediately been removed from the league for the remainder of the season.

Quote
Eshan: Hey man. You and I have had our differences...but we are going to be playing a game together, and if we are neighbors I wouldnt want any bad feelings between us. So I thought Id send you this link to a really cool website. Tell me if you like it :) http://knightstemplar.tv/symbols-of-peace.html

Walking: Hah. This PM + Your posts on Q/rain game = instant win.

Eshan: Lol times be changing, gotta adapt. Much rather you than ebo, and SS was less likely to agree. Rather let him solo ebo out if they are near each other. What say you?

Walking.TrL: Obviously. but if you backstab I suicide Putting a lot of faith into you......

Eshan: lol...we can also not do it if you want. i figured we can settle our beef in an epic 1v1 like reno/Q did. let SS do what he does. peaceful coexistence. im putting my faith into you too. especially trusting that rabbit wont say anything cause i know you would tell him.

Eshan: so now that ebos in our game ppl keep saying you will own him again... i hate ebo. hes a crap player that get by on luck and on noobs letting him manip. if u spawn near him i will not stop u from killin him and i will make sure he cant rebuild. if i spawn near him i will try to take him out also so dont hit me ok? after hes gone we dont have to peace just want him dead. if me and you spawn near each other hopefully we can go other way :). but i will be rdy in case u rush! but dont rush me cuz on this map we will miss the good items/expos/creeps ! not trying to preteam but just wanted to give u my thoughts before game

Walking: Your presumptions hurt me :( Just no PMing

Eshan: k dude your brief, sort of semi noncommitting answers worry me. do you want to or not...yes no? not gonna be the idiot that peaces only to be screwed...lol ur call u know im down

Walking: Hah.  Yes we are going to peace from the start and hoard and get 1 or 2 and team out the moron ebo and the soloist star. I like you Eshan.

Eshan: aw i like you too walking. trust me babe i dont do this with every ffa-er i meet.

Walking: 16/f/cali. U?

Walking: You whore! http://i41.tinypic.com/1grkbb.jpg

Eshan: yep he rejected the offer foolishly wait are u guys pming also? lololol this is hilarious hahahaha

Walking: No but he wanted to warn me. I never told him you sent me anything. So peace right?

Eshan: hahahaha nice one, yeah peace. i think this is my first and last game trying this. dont have the knack for all this statesmanship

Walking: Unless you win, then its this every game ;)

The evidence is indisputable and i'd say that the replay is too... but it was a save game. Replacement players are still TBA.

We thank both players for participating.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 02:59:28 PM by FML|WorpeX »

Offline FML|WorpeX

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2011, 09:27:20 PM »
Also, Ugri wrote a description of what happened after the save game:

What happened :
- Starshaped proposed that everyone go 100 in the middle and fight. He was 80 with one expo, walking and eshan at 50 with one expo for eshan and two for walking

- No one moved, starshaped realized that at the point of the save they were hoarding while he ws 80. He was the lowest on gold also (9k vs 18 and 20 k). He decides to hit walking unprotected expo. Walking chase him away with heroes.

THEN

Walking and Eshan pump 100 at the same time. At this point, SS has two main base : his castle and prod building unprotected and his last expo which ran out of money with lot of towers.

Eshan sieges the towered one while Walking destroys SS castle and prod buildings. SS main dies to Walking while he defends against Eshan.

THEN

Walking hits SS from north side while Eshan does it from South. They do it until SS is completely annihilated.

FINALLY

SS leaves insulting them.

SS : you both dicks, kill yourselves
----
Eshan : that felt dirty, like rly disgusting lol
Walking : in a good way, like a good old clan fury use
Eshan : no in a bad way, like lone preteaming

Offline Eshan

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2011, 09:30:26 PM »
this is pathetic, post the message i sent darkness. are you serious? like are you really serious? i try to help this league because i care about FFA and instead you BAN me?

and if you READ OUR PM CHAT you will see we didnt preteam at ALL in the game. we only decided to finally team up in the end, after 3 hours, vs a guy who had trirace, mass tower, charm harrass, and was hoarding.

thats basis for teaming in ANY game with any players. you didnt do anything to the people who actually teamed throughout full games, but im your scapegoat? your sacrificial lamb?

really unfair man, really.

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2011, 09:40:52 PM »
we spent 9 fml season without much troubles and major contestations.

After your game vs Q and reno you wanted to prove that the preteaming was possible, and pretended to help the league.

You dont help by trying to ruin something in order to prove it is ruinable.

When there were no witness around anymore, you enforced the preteam you agreed on with walking, and even laugh about it in the end.

I was supposed to be afk but hanged around to see if SS was lagging. Then I saw what you guys were doing and stayed.

I'm not happy you two are out but after worpex caught your pm with walking, we were being very cautious with your game.

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2011, 10:53:04 PM »
Now I know little of the situation, but if renauds comment on the other site is true

"he problem lies with what happened after the rehost (the save was at the 40 min mark) "

That is not preteaming. According to you guys that would be the same situation as rain and Q vs me which to you was not cheating.

I strongly urge the admins to undo the ban. I really don't feel like quitting wc3 again as sc2 is just boring.

Offline Eshan

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2011, 11:22:16 PM »
thank you RSM. Next post I will post the message I sent to darkness so all can read it. also let me just repeat what i said to ugri/renaud on garena chat

I did the PM thing to try to see if people would preteam - only walking agreed, but i didnt trust him anyway because he admitted to messaging with ebo also

i sent a message to admins stating what i was doing - trying to see if this preteam trend really exists.

Game starts - i always play to win. I focus on game only. that PMing was simply done to try and get ebo and walking to preteam together. NOT for me and any of them. I never cheat, never have, never will, in all my years of WC3. Everyone on this site knows me. Many dislike me, but none can say im a cheater - and ive been against preteaming on ffareplays for so long.

So in the game SS tells me to take out ebo while he fights walking (in PM). So i base ebo and kill him, enjoying it very much.

Then an hour long 3way happens where we all try to PM each other. During this, SS gets triple race, mass towrs, and hoards. And he has the best micro. And he hits me while walking doesnt (all this can be seen in the replay on ffareplays.)

Then we disconnect and rehost with Ugri as the only Obs. After a few minutes, SS masses towers again, kills walkings expo, and starts charm harrassing both of us. Thats enough to tip the scales and me and walking decide to team him out. He is the strongest, best micro, triple race, hoarded, mass tower on market square. I know I can beat walking in 1v1 so I agree.

In some pretty ugly teaming, we kill SS. Then I beat walking in 1v1. After SS dies, I say 'that was disgusting' because I felt bad about teaming him out like that. Not because we were preteaming

THERE WAS NO PRETEAMING. After 1.5 hours I team with the UD who HAPPENS to be Walking to kill the strong guy who attacked me. Anyone would do the same in that situation. It was based solely on in game circumstances, and in-game private messages. We did not preteam.

In a 3way i have 2 options, team with the UD or team with the HU. 50% chance. game circumstances made it better to choose the UD, and clearly i made the correct choice because i won.

But now admins think I preteamed because of those previous messages? Even when its clear why i sent them, and what was happening? I was open every step of the way and I was trying to help this league. Its like something out of a story where the guy who tries to help gets screwed over, right when he thought he won.

I admit I am upset if Im banned from FML. I enjoy FFA a lot, and this league is the best thing that has happened to it. I have invested enormous time into this league and this game, and i never have cheated. And i always play to win. We have former cheaters in this league, we have relatives, we have suiciders, we have clanmates. But Im the one who gets banned?

I please request the admins to atleast give some thought to reconsidering, I would really appreciate it. I'm not the kind of guy who will simply get mad and curse you out and leave like other people did (who you took back). Or like that joke account Al Pacino. I honestly care about this league which is why im upset and why im trying so hard to change your minds.

If anyone read all that thank you for taking the time.

Offline Eshan

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2011, 11:28:09 PM »
Here is the message i sent to admin. I was trying to be dramatic and 'set the stage' but obviously this has backfired by making them think I was tricking them? even though I had no idea they had seen the PMs until after - so what reason would I have to tell them if I truly was trying to preteam? :

(No subject)
« Sent to: FML|DarKNeSSCaLLs on: Today at 09:20:20 AM » ReplyQuoteDelete

In anticipation of my game I've done a little bit of 'manipping' via PMs, etc, in order to induce preteaming. Given the current climate of our league, I feel its very likely that people will take up the pregame alliances and/or PM-teaming within game that could eventually ruin FML. Namely, keep an eye out for Ebo and Walking to try and make sure SS and/or I fall before truly engaging each other. Now it may never fully materialize given how chaotic an FFA can be, depending on spawns (and on whether I rush ebo/walking out to make sure I don't get teamed). But its very likely.

If it happens I'll give my evidence as to how I know it was a pre-game alliance, but till then lets see if they succeed. It won't be decisive evidence, but once you admins have a look, it might be considerable enough. Just wanted to mention it BEFORE the game so it doesn't seem like I'm simply whining because I got teamed, or that I made anything up. :)

A lot of people say this is a gray area because theoretically the players are simply doing what was in their interest within the game to succeed, but in actuality, these alliances are giving certain players distinct advantages right from the start of the game. At first its just low-micro players like Ebo, Q, rabbit etc that can do it, because other players are willing to risk peacing them. But soon high micro guys will do it too, like Duck/rebuke, or even me if i have to. Then FFA might stop being what we used to love and turn into something ugly.

If it does happen I hope it shows that maybe some actions should be taken to ensure pregame alliances are limited. Ugri asked earlier what I would do to ensure this, and I don't really know myself, but all the admins are smart so I'm sure we can figure it out.

If it doesn't I will happily admit I was wrong and overreacting and being paranoid and troubling you for no reason! :)

Offline FML|WorpeX

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2011, 11:32:47 PM »
Thank you Eshan, we will keep your posts in mind and re-evaluate this whole thing.

I am curious to hear Walking's side.

Offline hejpådigStarshaped

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2011, 11:36:07 PM »
I remember getting a PM more or less asking to pre-team and I just said I don't swing that way.

Anyway, if they are both banned, what happens to the results of the game we played? Do they change at all?

Quite frankly, I think it's completely useless in situations like this to replay the game from a saved game that was 40+ minutes old. Either replay entirely if there is no recent save, or just go by points.

Offline Rebuke[SkyNet]

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2011, 11:41:00 PM »
good ban, theres a couple of more trash in this league that can use a kick

Offline Eshan

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2011, 11:52:41 PM »
thank you worpex, that is all i can ask

given my current situation i know i have little influence, so really i just am hoping that the admins give a fair re-evaluation

i honestly care about this league and i was really trying to help it from what i thought was a potential corruption

in the game i was simply playing for win with no preteaming. only normal teaming after 1.5 hours. did something truly wrong happen - was there really cheating? or just some ugly teaming?

i appreciate you takin the time to reevaluate it

Offline hejpådigStarshaped

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2011, 11:52:50 PM »
And just to clear it up, there have been massive exaggerations. BEFORE the disc I  had managed to crawl back from worst position to a large bank with ~130 food (charm + staff) and mass towers.

AFTER the disc, when the regame was played (~40 mins back in time), I suggested to 100 food fight and get it over with quickly, but they were both just silent. I scanned both and remembered that at this point in time they were both 50 food and I was at 80 with by far the least gold (which is what prompted me to remove peons from gold and spam towers in the first place). Since nobody replied to me I assumed they were teaming already, but I decided to try and change it up by attacking the 2 easy UD expos to try and force him to break upkeep. At this point I hadn't charmed anything or touched the elf in any way. while killing the UD expos I am hit by the elf at my base and at same time in my main by UD, and from there it's pure 2v1 until I leave in disgust.

That's what I recall, at least (may have been said already but this is from a player's perspective).

Offline Eshan

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2011, 11:56:39 PM »
you did charm me and you, quote, said "dont hit me im charming both of you" when i hit your dead middle expo. I replied, yes but im still losing units

and yeah you did crawl back, which is why i was afraid. you had triple race, towers, best micro. kind of reminds me of why yane used to get teamed with his dual race, insane micro. walking PM me that u kill his expo, i say hes charming me lets team. we both pump 100 and hit. Simple normal teaming.

 also, the save point was ~25 minutes, not 40. im sorry for the ugly teaming i was just doing what was in best interest to win

Offline FML|Renaud

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2011, 11:58:19 PM »
din't that happened after the save point?

Lightweight!

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Re: Dropping The Banhammer.
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2011, 12:39:45 AM »
I haven't read the hole thread, neither watched the replay yet, but it seems like a sad development i didnt expect  :icon_confused:. Well, that walking is convincable for preteaming i knew after my goldrush game with rabbit. But i didnt expect eshan to do sth like that. If it happened like i read in the text of them there is no doubt to ban them to make future games save from stuff like that. Good assertiveness admins!

"Apparently I've been banned from FML for preteaming, after trying to help test if people were really willing to preteam"

How stupid can you be eshan?  :icon_biggrin:

It's like you would steal something and afterwards say that you wanted to bring it back.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 12:48:05 AM by Lightweight! »