Man you can't be serious? Bolded = lol. And brilliance aura is the best aura / aura item in the game and you should pick/buy it whenever possible with whatever race or hero combo.
You disagree with my statement yet you offer zero reasons as to why—instead offering this blind sounding rule (its the best! you have to do it whenever possible!!) that you try to follow without-fail.
Blanket all-encompassing statements like this are almost always wrong. Every rule is made to be broken. I hold that it is not that good for Elf, and the only 4 auras, in a normal game, that you should be using are drums, legion doom horn, command, and maybe trueshot.
@Brilliance Aura: Fights last ~5 seconds in FFA. Sometimes 8 seconds. Rarely longer than that. I would rather survive burst damage than have a minimal mana aura that I don't really need. -I go 2 circlets + Staff of teleportation on my Panda. I always staff him back to my base and heal his health / mana, and the extra circlets give him more mana anyway. -Dotts have enough mana to keep heroes in the air. I dont want to cyclone units because I want chim to kill them.
Yeah lifesteal can be great in hippo vs garg wars, but not versus Orc. You can definitely make a few hippogryphs if you want, but my experience after countless games taught me to make less and less until I finally just stop making them altogether.
Nice post, mr Dovekie, thank you. Yes, I use cycllone a lot. I'm a kinda sloppy player with ~100 apm, or less. All I do in battles is spam cyclone, try to cast hero spells by cooldown and move my wounded heros back a bit, or staff them out.
Push with chims and cyclone. OK I will as soon as I meet another orc 1v1.
Speaking of items, ye, I'm super greedy here, I buy every aura I can get my hands on, even the worse ones. My philosophy is that my units are going to be totally imba with every aura, this is especially important in mirror. But then my hero has 600hp. I will work on it. No boots? I usually get a pair for every hero. Will try to play w/o the boots, but it feels wierd! As for the orbs... I used to get them on every hero. But then I thought to myself, is it worth it. Look. The keeper is going to cast his Tranquiity for 30sec (was it?), so he's not shooting half the time. I usually stack him with 4 hp items, a staff, and sometimes an AMS. Panda, I thought it's better to give him the orb past lvl 7, where he can crit (however if my main rival is hu, I usually skip haze and skill brawler to fight tank/copters, I find haze less usefull vs hu, what do you guys think about it?). The DH should definitely get the orb... I do realize that the orb of venom adds a lot of damage, but then my usual heros (my most usual combo is tinker/panda/keeper), none of them are about damage, save for panda maybe?
As for DR, I usually skill silence and lifedrain (if I get her 3rd) or retrain to lifedrain at lvl5, if I pick her 1st. I cast silence and drain life, the cast silence again, etc. She's much more lively this way, I find, again, what do you guys think about it? But my main point here, she's not shooting again, so the orb on her, is it worth it?
I would get boots on Panda if no movement auras, and I would keep @ most 2-3 auras (only movement / dmg auras—you do not need brilliance). Anything past that I think is pushing it, as you are missing out on Periapts / Scrolls. Obviously there are some insane items that take exception (ring +5, silence stick if you have the micro, spell shield, blink, crown, valor on DH, etc, use your head).
The Orbs are a very, very early game investment that pays off immediately. Try and get 2 shops in your main so you can have 3 Orbs as early as possible. The power level of this is so insane, and I don't see anybody else doing it. You can honestly defend anything at this point in the game with just wells and heroes, not to mention the obvious aggresive possibilities. You REALLY hurt enemies because the poison stacks to 27 pure dps x6 seconds every auto attack. At this early point in the game, it pushes you over the edge in power. Definitely keep it on the Kotg, as it is him that almost always gets off the first auto attack. Tranquility is more of an inbetween-battle spell then something you use in a 100 food fight. But if they are going to stay and fight you under tranq, then its a win either way. And anyways, this is something you get from level 1—5 levels before tranquility.
I wouldn't skip haze versus any race. The panda has too low damage and attack speed to make realistic use of drunken brawler dps. It is mathematically a 30% dps increase on him @ level 3 drunken brawler, on a hero with bad dps. Bad dps + 30% more = bad dps still.
Also, you are misunderstanding orb completely. You are on the line of thought that the more auto attack damage a hero does, the better Orb is on that hero. This is actually the opposite of what the Orb does. It gives a flat 9dps to any hero. So you give one to a demon hunter, and it increases him from like 60dps to 69dps (actually a little more because of +6). You give it to a kotg who has 22dps, and he goes to 31dps. A much larger percentage increase. It might sound insignificant, but when used on all 3 heroes, it is very noticeable and incredibly powerful, especially in the first 35 minutes of a game.
I think life drain is fine, but I would rather use Orb or skeletons personally.
Some pretty good advice here, though I do want to point a few things out:
The match up, even very late game, is not good for the Orc. I'm not saying it is usually in the Night Elves favor, I am just stating that it is not good for the Orc, because it is very expensive. They will lose casters/kodo and they will lose gold to invul potions, scrolls, and bats.
I have a quite a different take on this matchup than other people, and I think my way is extremely effective. I would even go so far as to say it is the Orc, even very late game, that is disadvantaged. Obviously if they have a spirit linked level 9 blade master with 3 crowns, and an SH with 4 periapts, with a high level TC, it gets pretty stupid, but it is still, imo, even enough, or even still elf favored in such a situation. But to the point, I think the people in here, while their other advice is great, their claiming of Orc being overpowered late-game in this match up are wrong, and they must have struggle with micro. It is not the case that Orc dominates this.
-Firstly, I think the best tip in here is seksi's "rush them" tip. This solves almost all the problems before they even happen (except for bm suicide harass if you miss some buildings). You should absolutely get your tech up before the Orc, and if you aren't, than that's a macro problem on your end, and can be solved by a little practice. Just hit them with 80-100 food, (1-2 upgraded) chims and scrolls. It is really that simple. Towers + Spirit Linked Orbed BM + Wyvern can kinda push you back if they scouted it, but I mean Orc is just so weak at this point. This is like 75 - 25 in Elf favor.
If you didn't rush them out, here is my advice.
Heros: It doesn't matter too much. Kotg is the best, and everything else is a bonus. DR, is powerful, but with my style it doesn't make too much of a difference. I like Kotg/Panda with either DH / Alch / Tinker as the 1st hero/carry.
Items: Don't get fancy. This is many peoples problem. You don't want boots, you don't want too many auras, you don't want big mana items (other than on Panda), you don't want claws. Just get Orbs, Staffs, Periapts (Circlets can work on melee heroes), and Consumables (scroll/tp/invul potion/AMS). Don't forget the triple Orb.
Army: This, apart from 3 Orbs, is where I differ the most. I don't believe you need any hippogryphs at all (unless you are really getting your ass handed to you). The army I would suggest is pure dott + chim. Go like 6-10 dott, then the rest chim. Obviously you can make a bear/faerie/MJ if you really want, but that's just preference. It's the 3 extra chims here that really, really push it over the edge. Also, no one is good at cyclone. Get good at cyclone.
Basically the plan here is to literally just slowly walk across the map toward their base with lots of scrolls in your army. Tranquility and proper staff usage is king @ staying afloat economically, but IMO you can win without ECO advantage.
General tips to make this work, especially micro:
1. You must play aggressive. They can outrun and out maneuver you on the field with almost double your movespeed. Their base? It is static, and doesn't move anywhere, and cost them a billion lumber to make that they will unlikely ever be able to reproduce.
2. Cyclone. Cyclone all 3 heroes all the time. All the time. Just keep them all cycloned always always always always. One of the biggest benefits of my strategy is that their heroes will never be spirit linked (cyclone dispels it), and because you have 3-4 more chims then you normally have, and because you will have 3 orbs, and because you will have entangle, and because you will have faerie fire, their heroes will die in any 2 second focus fire. But you don't even need to focus fire them because they are cycloned.
3. Let your chims kill their ground, and your heroes kill their Wyverns. AMS potion on Panda is important—wyverns fare extremely poorly against Elf heroes without blade/tc support, and Haze/Fire massively wrecks them. This is another reason to enjoy using the Alch, and to a lesser extent the DH, because they completely decimate air in conjunction with Panda w/out need of Hippogryph intervention (at least against Orc/Hu).
4. That's it. LOTS OF CHIMS, LOTS OF CYCLONE.
Also, it is hilarious when a "good" Orc trys to outsmart you by going heavy on the Wyvern instead of bats, because they think they can kite your chims. It just does not work when your heroes are constantly cycloned. The Chims are behind the Elf heroes, and once haze goes off on your Wyvern, it is just all bad news.
The only thing I really left out is "how to deal with invul potion on TC/Blade". Just do your best to minimize losses. AMS immediately on your Panda, and cyclone the non-invul heroes. You can even go crow form to dodge a stomp, assuming they don't have any bats left. But this might be the time to scroll.
So even though your win % is definitely lower in FFA, you only have to be 'good enough'. If you are 'good enough' (and that level isn't very high), then you are also soft capped with some sort of win % even if you are lower skill. You still win games often enough against people clearly above your skill level.
It's not like that in competitive solo, or a number of other disciplines.
Like I can into a track race with people out of my skill level. I will lose every race no matter what. I will have a 0% win rate, all the time. In FFA, I can play with people who are all better than me, at micro / macro / manip / decision making / unit choices, etc. And I can win my fair share of games. But this also is just part of my opinion on how organized, competitive FFA makes absolutely zero logical sense without some sort of rigid ruleset that affects gameplay.
Also—no one said anything about being offended (though eshan might be because I don't agree that it's harder).
nothing against any of these players, but this is the hardest game mode? really? Your chances of winning this are 10% if you are good, +/- some percentage points based on a bunch of arbitrary variables out of your control.
Does this even remotely compare to a prestigious solo tournament, that requires years and years of practice, study, talent & skill (both of which you need in considerably lower amounts in ffa)? No, it doesn't even compare. It is magnitudes easier in FFA. Even a bad player can have a great shot at winning an FFA game.
It's still impressive and they should feel awesome for accomplishing league victories, and while it may not always have taken an incredible amount of mechanical skill, it took a large amount of different types of skills nonetheless, and it is impressive—but it isn't anywhere near solo level.
Hmm yeah I think the Panda will continue to be stronger levels 3-5 in larger battles, but the MK will still be stronger levels 1 and 2, his levels 3-5 will still be strong enough, and level 6+ starts to get pretty wonky with that huge, high-damaging clap.
Arena is the best platform atm, it saved the game when it was once dying to brazilian hackers and long search times. We should stick with it to support a community of worthy players.
w3arena was always a crappy temporary solution, because the population will always forever be small on it, and theres never true accountability on a private server.
-Movespeed change is good from a gameplay persepctive, however it will hurt Orc the most because they don't gain a benefit from it. It will allow Elf and Human a little more power when using off-meta heroes. -TC and FS buff and Blade nerf are all irrelevant. Crown and Elven Skin will still boost crit damage, and stomp damage doesn't mean anything. -MK + Pally got a bit stronger. More dps from and movespeed for the pally, and thunder clap now hits harder than frost nova. This will help the match up against Orc the most. -DL carrion hitting mechanical units is probably the biggest change for FFA. Buffs Undead from a tier 3 late game race to a tier 2 late game race. Crypt Lord still sucks but whatever, he's a little less sucky now. -Keeper is stupidly strong. Will get nerfed, so don't worry too hard. Oh man imagine playing against an Elf with a level 6 Alchy that transmutes your destroyers and a keeper that constantly entangles your heroes forcing you to fight roared hippogryphs under (a buffed) acid bomb + thorns + haze fire. The Undead v Elf MU just got so bad for Undead.
So IMO: -Orc got hurt the most, because they didn't get anything -MK + Pally buffs are a big deal against Orc especially -DL buff allows Undead a much better late game against Human. -Elf gets buffed as much or more-so than Undead. Tinker and Alch could become as meta as DH first. Tinker will be so fast now. Kotg is a top tier hero. Elf can safely pick Keeper first, and get an early 290 movespeed panda. If tanks were nerfed Elf could even skip panda, and go alch/dr/kotg. That would be the dream.
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