Might be good to force orcs to waste concoction on the gargs, stone form and TP out to save them. If 2 banshees can AMS 10 gargs then 10 gargs might be enough to get going with as far as being able to kill an orc while staying at 80? Also if you make a necropolis somewhere outside their base or expo and TP your stone form gargs to there you can force another fight fairly quickly, possibly before his new round of bats is ready (e.g. he only has 5 out but needs 10 to kill all your gargs). All theorycraft of course but it would be nice for UD to find an edge on those damn orcs! =)
Saw wc2 at a friend's house when I was little and thought it and Orcs were the coolest thing ever. Played a lot of random since I thought it would make me a better player but it was never as much fun as just playing Orc. For the horde!
Yeah, now that you mention it I've seen that 2nd Hall of the Dead in Maga's base when watching him, and I do normally see more than one main building in most players' bases as games progress, but I wonder if turning to mass necropolises instead of zigs could make a difference in the late game. I think their attributes could be > zigs as far as synergy with the standard UD army when it comes to base race.
Also, I'm pretty sure I've already seen the following done/attempted so I won't call it theorycraft: if the enemy is only sending tanks but no heroes or the heroes have been killed then good infernal and stone-form garg drops and a wyrm (plus D & D?) could suffice for standard UD against tanks, I'm thinking.
I am an advocate of multiple necropolis'. 255 gold versus 150 gold 50 wood. Wood can sometimes be an issue and the extra 100 gold grants you a 1500 hp building that still gives 10 food. Another important point is that it gives you another building to TP to in case your main is wrecked by tanks, chims, or bats. You touched on it also that it buys you additional time if you have necropolis' on the perimeter of your base to get back in position to defend. I also make an extra necropolis usually at most expos. 2 Necropolis, 1 cold tower, and 1-2 spirit towers fortifies it really well. Again it buys you more time if you aren't ready to TP right away as you can let one of the necropolis go down.
You can place at least 3 necropolis' in your main on any map. Even on Market, once the wood is chopped I will always build one more necropolis in the back as well as one towards the front. This allows me to TP onto the path in front of my base, in the far back, or from my main. On maps where you can accumulate a lot of gold like Twilight, you can have a ring of necropolis (2-4) around the perimeter, your main base, and 1 or 2 necropolis in the back as well.
One additional use of the necropolis is that it does not require blight to summon. Meaning that you can place it at choke points between bases for not only a fortified scout, but also for another option to TP to if you see an opportunity. Same goes for the idea of building one right next to an opposing main base for offensive TPs.
And, as Renaud pointed out, wood can be returned to it whereas the same can't be said for zigs.
As for the second of your bolded points, I would love to see people try this. Even if the enemy can see it building, they still have to divert units to it (or perhaps even TP home) to deal with the possibility that an undead might TP to it and/or end up with a large chunk of blight outside their base which remains even after the necropolis is killed/unsummoned, unless of course it is dispelled/built over (which would still be a price to pay).
That is a legitimate point but what are the FFA maps that are short on building space and have more than a single choke point to enter each spawn point (as on Market Square)? I know that choke points won't matter against mass chims but at least standard undead has an effective way of killing them. I'm assuming of course that the single choke point on Market Square can be used to deal effectively with tanks, but I admit I have no personal experience with which to argue that it in fact can be.
And just a little more theorycraft regarding Market Square: if the wood around the naturals were gathered (or perhaps even if not) I wonder whether the naturals could also be used well as far as necropolises?
I mentioned a piece of theorycraft (or only theorycrap perhaps) on the wcreplays forums a few weeks back and was wondering what you all would think of it here. I haven't posted or visited here in a while and the only other time of any significance that I did was with another questionable piece of theorycraft as far as allowing pm and preteaming in FML, but be that as it may I assure you that these are not attempts to troll.
Someone (for the umpteenth time) brought up the huge weakness undead suffers as far as base racing in FFA, and I suggested replacing ziggurats with necropolises (or necropolii to some =) as the game progresses, or beginning with necropolises instead of ziggurats in the first place, and building them significantly spaced apart, perhaps as far apart as 4-5 necropolises worth but at least 2 necropolises worth.
It didn't occur to me to specify at that time the idea of using the necropolises as a perimeter around your base, not only for an advance warning but also to synergize with the fact that the standard undead army is built for speed and hit and runs, and great at nuking single units, and being able to TP to multiple positions, some of them perhaps not on-screen and perhaps not during daytime, whereby you can catch your opponent out of position, is a huge advantage to any army.
Necropolises are much cheaper to build compared to upgraded zigs and can be built anywhere. An undead player able to keep their army alive (which shouldn't be too hard against armies designed to kill buildings), and which can rely on a new abundance of opportunities to out-position incoming armies could I think turn the base race against undead into the more costly option it ought to be.
Finally, tanks and chims are slow. Spacing out your buildings means those units need to cover that much more ground to do their work, giving you more time to respond and/or force a TP. Also, you would be fighting on blight more often, insofar as a larger space is occupied (at one time or another) by undead buildings.
Any thoughts FFA players of all skill levels and/or fans? I personally prefer playing orc and don't have the time to play as often as I like so I think it unlikely (though not out of the question) that I'll ever do anymore than theorycraft on this subject. I would however love to hear about anyone's results while utilizing such a strategy.
I think persuade was suggesting 12:00 EST. I can confirm a start time of 13:00 or 14:00 as well though. If you're talking about CET times though I'd rather not play before 11:00 EST which = 17:00 CET I believe.
I'm fine with switching groups with lovetrance, it seems I'm the only one in this group who can't make times during the day on weekdays while that's all lovetrance is available for. Can you deal me into M2 Renaud?
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