March 23, 2018, 08:34:04 PM

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Messages - WES

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Strategy / Re: NE vs Orc 1v1
« on: March 18, 2018, 04:51:36 PM »
k, noted. I'm often 80 food, btw.
I heard, when elf, you should either be 50 or 100, but idk.
Is it wise to stick to this rule, in general?
I have an SC:BW background, so I always have enow production facilities (like, 6 winds or more usually, etc.), many wells, upgrades and expoes. I mean, my macro is OK, but still I often lose to an attack when I'm staying at 50. But then, it may be because of the lack of scouting?

I recently started going for a hundred, like, ASAP and go kill somebody, expanding more in the meantime, instead of hoarding. This way my heroes get better lvls and as for gold, I noticed that when you go 100, you still accumulate some nice amounts of $$, I think this is because your army is so big and mighty, you don't lose units and hence don't have to re-produce them.

I definitely should use scrolls more, though...

Strategy / Re: NE vs Orc 1v1
« on: March 17, 2018, 06:24:43 AM »
So I kinda figured (thanks to you all) what to do vs wyv/bats.
But I have a problem vs orc ground, especially if this is their main strat and they are good at it.
I'm talking about t3 headhunters, some tauren & all 3 casters.
Spiritlinked units with healwards are tough. Just yesterday I lost a battle with like 100 roared chims vs 100 orc ground. I did not have talons this time, unfortunately.
Was that my micro (I do not really micro in battles, as I've said before), or should chims lose to headhunter-caster-tauren combo? My heroes were lower that his, and the guy is much better than me, but still, that looked like I just fed him xd
I think I should make MGs vs orc ground, but then they got tauren?
Also, maybe dryads with dispell, or wisps to detonate? Idk. Spirit link is strong, gotta get rid of it, no? I also snipe healwards whenever I can

Strategy / Re: NE vs Orc 1v1
« on: March 14, 2018, 04:08:27 AM »
So, yesterday I did the chim-talon push on orc, and it was so cool.
Just my two thoughts on it: I think I still should make 1-2 hippos to make short work off their burning wyverns, as I can't bof/haze/entangle/cyclone/staff AND focus red hep wyvs with my heros, 2much for me. I'm not, like, bad, just sloppy.

Then, no brilliance aura for this strat? Yesterday that game I got dropped 2 brilliance pipes, sold one and I thought I'm really good, this is the best aura to go with talons, imo? Were you speaking in general (that one doesn't need the mana pipe in every mu) or about vs orc in particular? I also like the lifesteal aura in hippo or hippo-garg battles. But I'm leaning towards buying TC/DK/kodo auras only as for now.

Then, of orbs. Yes, Im always making 2 shops at t2 to get my staves and later orbs faster. I really used to play with 3x-orb, but once again, this is because someone one the Internet told me so. So, I'm thinking about it myself now. One thing I noticed, when harassing with the tinker, is how much more fast workers go down if you have the orb: you just hit one, then another one, then the 3rd one, and then back to the 1st one, which is already less than 50%hp... Without the orb it's funnily tedious. And chasing fleeing units too, if I have the orb, it's much more easy...But then, it's 1 more slot of the inventory. I get it, that the benefits are nice, though.

AMS is a must, no doubt about it. Or else your panda will always be asleep/hexxed/cycloned/silenced. Vs HU with griffins or vs UD with a lot of wyrms I get AMS on every hero...

Strategy / Re: NE vs Orc 1v1
« on: March 13, 2018, 12:26:19 PM »
Nice post, mr Dovekie, thank you. Yes, I use cycllone a lot. I'm a kinda sloppy player with ~100 apm, or less. All I do in battles is spam cyclone, try to cast hero spells by cooldown and move my wounded heros back a bit, or staff them out.

Push with chims and cyclone. OK I will as soon as I meet another orc 1v1.

Speaking of items, ye, I'm super greedy here, I buy every aura I can get my hands on, even the worse ones. My philosophy is that my units are going to be totally imba with every aura, this is especially important in mirror. But then my hero has 600hp. I will work on it.
No boots? I usually get a pair for every hero. Will try to play w/o the boots, but it feels wierd! As for the orbs... I used to get them on every hero. But then I thought to myself, is it worth it. Look. The keeper is going to cast his Tranquiity for 30sec (was it?), so he's not shooting half the time. I usually stack him with 4 hp items, a staff, and sometimes an AMS. Panda, I thought it's better to give him the orb past lvl 7, where he can crit (however if my main rival is hu, I usually skip haze and skill brawler to fight tank/copters, I find haze less usefull vs hu, what do you guys think about it?). The DH should definitely get the orb...
I do realize that the orb of venom adds a lot of damage, but then my usual heros (my most usual combo is tinker/panda/keeper), none of them are about damage, save for panda maybe?

As for DR, I usually skill silence and lifedrain (if I get her 3rd) or retrain to lifedrain at lvl5, if I pick her 1st. I cast silence and drain life, the cast silence again, etc. She's much more lively this way, I find, again, what do you guys think about it? But my main point here, she's not shooting again, so the orb on her, is it worth it?

Strategy / Re: NE vs Orc 1v1
« on: March 12, 2018, 10:27:25 AM »
lots of good advice here, thanks a lot!
Yes, I generally upgrade armour 1st, always, because I heard different people/guides say so, although I'm a bit copy-cat-ing here, as I don't really understand why, but w/e.

Sniping a voodoo shop, yes, I always do that, the problem is that competent orcs always have more than just 1! And speaking of production buildings, I played a lot with one guy, he always has at least 5 beastiaries, oftentimes more and in different bases.

And after I lose, I often stay at least to peek at my opponents' bases, sometimes those orc bases are amazing. It depends on the player, though.

So, my primary unit is going to be chim, then. I don't use them often tbh, I usually build 4-8 chim roosts just in case, but generally I play through the Ancient of War and Winds units (archers, talons, hipporider are my favourite, a bear for roar). But lately I started using chims more. And will use them more, too.

TC/SH! That's a revelation. I used to do exactly so, focus TC or SH, hoping to finally kill them, but they never died. I will work on it, thanks for pointing it out! But it's so tempting.

If there is anything else, that seems obvious, but important (like not focusing tc/sh), feel free to point it out. I may still not know about it. I know that one shouldn't focus fire dh also...

Strategy / Re: NE vs Orc 1v1
« on: March 11, 2018, 10:17:50 AM »
Thanks for all the replies so far, guys!
Yes, I always try to take down an orc, esp. if I know he's a good player.
The bot is full of orcs, however, sometimes there are 2 or 3 orcs in a 6-way game.
And they are doing pretty well, so I often have to fight them 1v1.
I get it, about killing smth and tping out, I've seen uds do the same thing in solo or 2v2, basicaly they killed a bear or two and tp'ed away. TP is 350, so as long as I kill something that is 350+ gold, it's a good trade.

But as I dodge direct confrontation, I should somehow harass them too, I guess?

A lot comes down to multitasking, I've just lost a game to a rly good player who split harassed my expoes, I think I should learn to do the same.

In terms of micro/macro/decision making, I'm your average ffa bot player. I just don't know what to do vs orc at all. Recently I had a game where I amassed around 10k and hadd all the production facilities. But felt so numb and stuck, because what should I buy vs a fully buffed orc army of tauren, casters, wyverns and bats?

I like the advise on making a mixed army from aarnikratti, btw, will definitely try as soon as I can.

1 more thing to add, though, is that I can't find FML games on youtube, where I'd watch a good lategame NE v OR 1v1 to learn from.

Strategy / NE vs Orc 1v1
« on: March 11, 2018, 05:38:25 AM »
I've been playing FFA actively for the last year on the bot, and I watch FML games on youtube. I learned how to fight UD, HU, I also think I understand the NE mirror. But I am totaly at a loss when it comes down to fighting orcs 1v1. My main issues are: bats, stomp, bladestorm. Let me explain.
1. bats. This one is obvious. They explode my chims. People say that this is expensive for orcs, but I had 1 game where we had a split map and 20k in the bank each (Sanctuary). So I thought I will roll over him with chims and suffocate him. But after a while he was 2-3k ahead of me, after some more while 5k ahead, etc. He would use 2-3 bats per chim, and I tried to position them, staff them back and use tranquility as they were exploding. Now, I know that guy and he's leagues better than me, but it seemed so hopeless anyway.
I thought about keeping wands of illusion to clone my chims later in the game and let him waste a lot of bats in vain, but one can't rely on obtaining lots of wands everytime on every map. I aso thought about harassing remote expoes with 1-2 chims, like HUs do, sending 1-2 tanks, would that be effective? Lastly, I probably shouldn't just a-click my chims, but rather kite and bait their bats to Haze/BoF them + some other AOE? (I play a lot of different combos)

2. Bladestorm and 3. Stomp. These two spells seem to counter ground so hard. I figured, that when orcs go headhunters with casters, I'm doing well with roared Giants+archers+talons and AOE heroes (Panda, Tinker, Naga, maybe Warden). But if the BM is lvl 6+, this strategy seems feeble because bladestorm counters archers so hard. When they bladestorm, I transform my talons into crows, but my archers are gone. I can delay b.storm/stomp by using cyclone (I use this spell a lot), but it's not forever.
For the same reason I don't feel I can go bears vs orc ground, as they will get stomped (literally) and b.stormed.
Will real mass chims work vs headhunters with casters?

Lastly, to speak about hero choice. I usually play tinker first, but if my main rival in the game is orc, I feel that dh/dr are very important, sometimes I pick them both. May be, demon/dr/kotg, idk? I also experiment with using beast and pitlord sometimes (summons/howl). I feel that talons are really good vs orc with their manual faerie fire and cyclone.

I also noticed that I can rush orcs with 2 hero archer talon army early on (t2-t3), even without cyclone. Sometimes I managed to take down players, that are clearly better than me and would leave me no chance late game.

But late gate vs an equal orc I lose most of the time. Someone said in another thread, that NE= or even >Orc. How so? Help me, please.

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