FFA Masters League
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Slythe on November 17, 2017, 08:22:48 am
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Just thought about some balance changes to make the already often imbalanced gametype a little bit more fair :icon_rolleyes: .
Human:
Tanks: increase gold costs around +50, give slightly more xp for killing it
~ +10
Towers: increase gold cost for ALL towers by 30 gold
Archmage: increase mana for Blizzard + 50%
Paladin: lower duration of divine shield to 10/20/30
Mortars: Reduce dmg - 15%
Gryphons: Decrease dmg - 10 %, add more movement speed
Elf :
Upgrades: Change upgrade tree, so chimeras will gain attributes with same
upgrade as archers/hunts do
Demonhunter: Increase cost of Mana burn to 50/100/150, lower his agility -2,
give +1 strength
Warden: Increase HP and Mana +50 each
Roar: Cap maximum amount of units that are roared to 15, lower the
duration - 25%
Orc:
Taurenchieftain: Reduce Stomp Duration -25% at lvl 3, lower radius -25% at lvl 3
Make the endurance aura a mana draining spell, costs 1/2/3
mana/ second . Give TC 40 more base mana.
Shadowhunter: Reduce hex-duration at lvl 3 - 25%
Wyvver: increase hitpoints + 50, reduce damage - 20%, decrease food
cost to 3
Towers: increase gold cost +30
Trollheadhunter: Berserk Upgrade + 50 HP, Berserk ability rework: + 30% dmg
dealt, +50 % more physical damage taken, - 40% magical
(attack and spells) taken
Witchdoctor: Lumber costs reduced to 30/80 for adept/master
Undead:
Deathknight: Deathpact deals damage and burns mana from units/heroes
around the unit your killing with ur spell
(area and dmg increases with lvl)
Cryptlord: +40 base Mana, change impale animation/bug, that sometimes
causes no stun/dmg, once ur moving ur CL during spell
animation
Dreadlord: Increase Infernal mana Cost +50, lower duration -15 secs
Destroyer: Statue 2 food, destroyer 4 food. Devour reload decrease -50%
Gargoyle: Reduce gold costs -15
Buildings: Add HP to ziggurats, necropolis +20, to all other buildings +50,
Add +1 armor to all builds
Acolytes: Reduce repair speed -25%
General:
Change Creep AI, so they attack buildings around them always the same radius, let them ignore uprooted trees
All mercs should be instantly avaiable. They are like summoned units with a duration of 3 minutes. Gold costs reduced -25%.
No main buildings or towers can be placed on cliffs.
Neutral heroes:
Darkranger: Silence area reduced at lvl 3 -15 % . Charm reload duration
increased + 30 secs.
Pandaren Brewmaster: Drunken haze capped at 12 units, duration decrease -20%
at all levels
Alchemist: Transmute cooldown increase +30 secs.
Firelord: Base mana +30, base HP + 40, change to undead hero.
Tinker: Rocket Stun duration increase + 25% each level.
Pitlord: Increase radius of Rain of fire + 25%. +40 base mana.
+1 base agility.
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A lot of ideas. :)
I think the entire game would be way more balanced already if you fix tanks (more xp and supply) and BM crit (no stacking with claws).
There are other things that I think might be overpowered, like Warden blink, masonry, defend footmen, stomp or underpowered like necros, UD goldmine or firelord. I just think it's difficult to "balance" stuff across all game modes.
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Ya first thing is blizzard has said they're working with pros and Netease for balance changes. And as we all know 1v1 is far different than FFA.
So we will never get a game balanced around our playstyle.
Lastly all we need is since tanks have fortified army either change their armor type OR allow frost breath and corrosive breath to affect them with their fortified armor. That's all that needs to happen to make tanks balanced.
Claws stacking on bm is really on relevant in FFA where you get +12. In 1v1 I saw a graph showing the difference in DPS from claws +6 circlet and gloves and the difference is minimal.
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The only changes I would like to see
1) Either make tanks 4 food or reduce their HP pool by 100 hitpoints
2) Decrease divine shield duration slightly and increase cooldown slightly too
3) Give orc a wood upgrade like human but slightly reduce stomp duration at lvl 3
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Bats should give exp to opponent, Liquid Fire should not block repairing, in return decrease the cost by 15
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I do have a contact with Blizzards Classic Team. If ya'll agreed to a list of suggestions for FFA balance I could send it his way.
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ehh there are a lot of changes here i disagree with. you have to be careful as any little change has butterfly effects that can affect the game greatly.
but tanks definitely need to be nerfed - either 4 food, +75 gold, or -100 hp. Something like that...I think the 4 food is the best option personally.
and maybe DH mana burn cooldown is nerfed to add a few more seconds
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To me, the only universal agreement about Warcraft 3 balancing seems to be about tanks. :icon_lol:
Particularly when it comes to xp and supply needed, tanks are just ridiculously good.
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I think you have to consider the effect of balance changes on competitive 1v1. Because blizzard team won't give a shit about a balance change to ffa if it negatively impacts 1v1. Tanks to 4 supply seems like the best option. Tanks aren't used much in 1v1 and are pretty universally agreed to be overpowered in ffa. Other than that.... I mean needing divine shield sounds great to me, but need to be careful needing one race too much. Even little changes can have large ripple effects in the world of balance craft
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Tanks to 4 food and crit strike being based on base damage not damage after items are the best balance across game type changes I've seen floated.
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yeah I agree with Mog, that's why I would like to make only really small changes
Actually I think tanks don't need to be nerfed that hard.
The most important thing for me is to nerf pala divine shield at high level which makes human totally unbeatable in hero arena
Currently it is : 15s-30s-45s, best would be 15s-25s-35s
I don't have much solo knowledge but I think it might be decent change for solo as well or at least not so big of a change
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Yeah I agree with you ponty about divine shield. I don't think it would effect solo hardly at all but would make a much needed difference in ffa. Also, maybe instead of nerfing tanks with an additional supply cost, could just make them give same experience as dryads. That's a relatively small change that would help ffa a lot
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Nice thread and cool ideas. In my opinion, I think less is more when it comes to balancing as any change can have ripple effects.
I have also always called for Tanks to be 4 food. They would still be extremely good and effective, but armies would be seen more consistently with 4-6 tanks instead of 6-8+ in a typical 80 food army. They already give a good amount of XP, at 4 food they would be not as completely dominant.
I like the idea to reduce Divine Shield duration slightly. I don't mind having the cool down as it is, in my mind it should be used for quick defense in vulnerable spots... not battle long invincibility.
I think Orc and Elf could be left as is. Orc in general should utilize Headhunters at times in their armies and that would help against some of the weaknesses it has early game. Each would also be slightly buffed by the slight nerfs of Human.
As for Undead, I would say increase the building HP across the board maybe 25% or at least 15%. Undead bases are paper thin and a huge reason why they struggle against every other races siege (think Bats, Chims, Tanks). Gargoyles should have a slight decrease in gold cost (by 10 or 15 gold) as they are Undead's most important FFA unit yet also the most expensive 2 food unit in the game. If UD loses a group of gargs it's about 2000g.
I believe the following changes would help equalize the current scope of FFA balance (In my opinion it is currently Human > Elf = Orc > Undead) without drastically changing the game.
:hu: Human: :hu:
- Tanks food cost increased to 4 (up from 3)
- Paladin's Divine Shield duration decreased to 15/25/35 seconds (down from 15/30/45)
:ud: Undead: :ud:
- Increase the HP of all buildings by 15%. (Ex: Necropolis HP increased to 1650, up from 1500).
- Gargoyles cost in gold decreased to 175g (down from 185g).
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@HighTac
" Undead:
1) Deathknight: Deathpact deals damage and burns mana from units/heroes
around the unit your killing with ur spell
(area and dmg increases with lvl)
2) Cryptlord: +40 base Mana, change impale animation/bug, that sometimes
causes no stun/dmg, once ur moving ur CL during spell
animation
3) Dreadlord: Increase Infernal mana Cost +50, lower duration -15 secs
4) Destroyer: Statue 2 food, destroyer 4 food. Devour reload decrease -50%
5) Gargoyle: Reduce gold costs -15
6 )Buildings: Add HP to ziggurats, necropolis +20, to all other buildings +50,
Add +1 armor to all builds
7) Acolytes: Reduce repair speed -25% "
As for me - 1) 2) 7) - doesn't matter - rly
but
4) Destroyer: Statue 2 food, destroyer 4 food. Devour reload decrease -50% - YES !!! or statue 3 food but destroyer 4...
5) Gargoyle: Reduce gold costs -15 - YES !!!
6 )Buildings: Add HP to ziggurats, necropolis +20, to all other buildings +50,
Add +1 armor to all builds - YES !!!
3) Dreadlord: Increase Infernal mana Cost +50, lower duration -15 secs
WHAT ???? --->>>> NO!!! NO!!! NO!!!
@Seksi
i agree with all what you told there before !
That - what i :ud: want changed !
1) General armor for all units of undead OR general attack for all units of the undead
2) Increase the HP of all buildings by 15%. ( Ex: Necropolis HP increased to 1650, up from 1500 and add 1-2 points armor ).
- Gargoyles cost in gold decreased to 165-175g (down from 185g).
3) the ability to pump the armor of the catapult 3 times
4) necromancers : remove automatically using the first ability, and add the automatic use of second or third ( second is even better )
5) necromancers or banshees - one ( any ) of these two units is to make spell immunity
THAT is rly all what UD need !!! : )
P.S. if DK once coiled Panda - someone in Russia will smile :D
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@Jao4 I like the thought of having Unholy Frenzy able to auto-cast like Bloodlust :D
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I think orc needs a spell immune unit. Like HH let's make them spell and magic immune!! :) ;) :) B=========D
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Making tanks give more xp sounds good. 4 food tanks would imo be too much. This means having less other units as well. E.g. 6 tanks would be 18 food => 24 food. That means 1 less priest and a gryphon.
Everything else would rather not change.
And of course magic immune and resistant skin wyvrens
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Undead is the only race to have only 1 siege unit
It's hard for them to defend vs tanks
What about making an upgrade for ghouls to give them siege damage at t3 ?
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Undead is the only race to have only 1 siege unit
It's hard for them to defend vs tanks
What about making an upgrade for ghouls to give them siege damage at t3 ?
Thats why I think leave tanks alone but make it so frost breath and corrosive breath can hit them is the answer. Orc doesn't struggle with tanks it's elf and undead that do.
This would also be good for solo as well I think.
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Yall wild lmao
Jaod out here trying to make UD into a godly race
If gargs are the best UD unit, they SHOULD be expensive. But if you watch yane you can see how UD shld be played - more variety of units
The tank nerf would benefit UD most of all, so with just the tank nerf we solve almost all balance issues.
If you nerf BM crit to only base damage i would prob never use him except on tiny maps
If we are seriously discussing ideas to send to blizzard the tank one should be the priority, which everyone agrees on
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Yall wild lmao
Jaod out here trying to make UD into a godly race
If gargs are the best UD unit, they SHOULD be expensive. But if you watch yane you can see how UD shld be played - more variety of units
The tank nerf would benefit UD most of all, so with just the tank nerf we solve almost all balance issues.
If you nerf BM crit to only base damage i would prob never use him except on tiny maps
If we are seriously discussing ideas to send to blizzard the tank one should be the priority, which everyone agrees on
I just indicated famous UD weakness.... and teoretically try changed this
All races playing FFA games with mages but UD do it too rarely cuz that good work only vs Hu army ( and even not always )..... good mages by UD can changed all UD combinations of army....
yes - you can said - maga always do one necro ) - but for real that is not so great as you think
Gargs famous UD unit but that unit - sometimes feels like made papper unut ( OFC like UD buildings ) - mb this is reason why you dont goes with that unit, when you get UD race as RDM player ?( i mean you cant good work with this )
Yall wild lmao when you play with UD race :D
Don't think you can talk there correct about UD race - lets talk better about orcs : )
and i long time try load Yane games - but actually i find only one his game on youtobe - game on twilight on ladder bot with smth NE with DR Panda Kotg and smth UD with necrowagons.... he played this game like me or like anyone another UD with gargs 80 and 100 pops
MB you have smth ? of Yane games
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I know it's too far fetched but a different state of balance based on the game type (1v1,2v2,ffa) you select would be the best option since you can't balance the game for every mode.
Still though there are some universal changes that will make the game better :
- tanks should give more exp.
- acolytes should have a spell dmg reducing passive while they are in the mine (similar like archers' elune's grace) so you can't harass them so easily.
- war stomp level 3 should have reduced stunt duration and bigger damage to compensate. You can't have a 5 sec stunt with 6 sec cooldown that's aoe.
- Slept heroes should not gain experience while the spell is in effect.
- Scroll of speed 75 gold or 100. 50 is too cheap.
Nothing too much imho, game is pretty balanced as it is.
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stop abuse uprooting aow noobs !
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Is there any chance that w3arena will work even if they make new patch :)?
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hackz have been "fixed" for new patches so it should be possible to patch w3arena as well. also, if i am not mistaken, netease uses newer version of wc3 than w3arena.
that said, i think it would be wise to make w3arena and netease semi-obsolete, by fixing matchmaking and banning hackers, before introducing balance changes.
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hackz have been "fixed" for new patches so it should be possible to patch w3arena as well. also, if i am not mistaken, netease uses newer version of wc3 than w3arena.
that said, i think it would be wise to make w3arena and netease semi-obsolete, by fixing matchmaking and banning hackers, before introducing balance changes.
Netease is on the same patch I believe as wc3. W3arena is like 4 patches behind but what do you expect when their program is so shit that all new members got instantly banned for like a month there. I think they fixed that issue but I don't know.
And lag is non existent. The only problem is with b.net is the search times. But I still can 4s and FFA that's all I care abiut. Only means complain about the hackers, cause honestly the hackers suck ass. I'm a newb and beat hackers regularily. Most people just lose to a superior player and call them a hacker.