FFA Masters League
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Seksi on November 13, 2017, 04:27:11 am
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Yo!
I was having a very cool discussion regarding some of these topics. It's always interesting (and nostalgic) to discuss skilled players in the respective game (or sport) you compete in. I have a lot of experience with these players and hopefully can provide some insight as well. Without further ado, here are my lists for the best FFA players of all time, broken down by race.
[Lists are in no particular order]
:hu: HUMAN: :hu: Human is the best FFA race and it's no coincidence that this list has many incredible Human players.
htrt - Maybe the greatest FFA player of all time. He had elite micro and macro but also was extremely intelligent and understood the intricacies of FFA completely. He was the closest thing to a perfect Human player.
Target - The original Human powerhouse. He would often play only two heroes (MK/Paladin) and go fast 80/100 Gryphon/Hawk with a lot of pressure. He didn't play much after the beginning but makes this list for his (short) period of dominance.
Lightweight - My ultimate Rival! Lightweight was absolutely a top tier Human and Orc player. A fearsome player that was very well rounded in all aspects of FFA.
Noexxx - One of the best players of all time and arguably the best player from recent times. Noexxx has slick micro but also a unique and intelligent game. He could compete micro wise with some of the pro solo players from awhile back (yaws in Human mirror and Ludix against Orc) while still being balanced and playing an overall better game.
SuperCumulo - BNet solo pro turned FFA veteran. I met Cumulo around 2010 on BNet when he joined my custom FFA games. Our first game was on Twilight and I was Orc with DR/TC/SH. He was quickly interested in FFA and now has become one of the best Human players without question. High level of Micro and a developed sense for FFA and making the right decisions makes Cumulo a threat in any game.
Soso - Soso is another very strong Human player that started out playing with me for some time. He picked up FFA quickly and had a passion to improve. Great micro and strategy as well as decision making. He was a cerebral player that could compete with anyone. He and Noexxx were the best humans for a stretch of time.
RebbatS - Old school player, best known for winning strategic games and long 3 ways. He was the first version of a j33. type of player. He had good enough micro to compete in battle but he was really good at winning games against players with superior micro as well (think Eshan). RebbatS had some incredible finishes that made him unique.
Battle.Suck - The definition of aggression as a Human FFA player. He understood FFA enough and had top level micro. He was absolutely relentless; one of the most difficult players to fight against because he was non-stop. He also had crazy mixed armies that he managed to micro together and effectively. Gryphons, Hawks, Gyros, Breakers, Priest, Sorc, Mortar, Knight while using Tanks at your expos. He would quickly go 100 food and fight to the death!
Humans7ar - Humans7ar rounds out this list of top Human players. He didn't have elite micro but definitely good enough to compete. More than anything, he understood the ins-and-outs of playing Human and how to utilize them. He was able to adapt to any situation and rarely made mistakes. He loved to fight and hardly ever manipulated.
:orc: ORC: :orc: Orc is a lost race. Back in the day, Orc was one of the dominant races (if not the most dominant) regarding the number of skilled and high level Orc players. The best Orc players were well-rounded and absolutely dominant.
Invincible_Rice - Rice was the best FFA player in the beginnings of FFA. He played all ground (headhunters/casters/tauren/kodo) 100 food. No wyverns and no bats and he had insane micro and macro. His army controls were unmatched and he would often 1v2 or 1v3 players. He played FS/TC/SH with Orc Ground and had dominating ladder records. He was compared to Starcraft pros because of his macro and multi-tasking.
DarknessCallsMe - The master of DR/TC/SH Orc. Darkness skill was unreal and his hero combo was the absolute best fighting combo of any race. It's too bad that no one plays DR anymore. Silence adds to Stomp and Hex for a triple-disable that could lock down an opponent completely with good micro. I remember watching a FRAPS video (before the days of Twitch) of Darkness and seeing his 300+ APM. It seemed like a ton of unnecessary actions but he was as dominant of a player as anyone in his prime.
DasElend - BM/TC/SH in it's purest form. DasElend had it all... high level micro, macro and FFA sense. But what stood out to me the most was his BM use was the best ever. You were always scouted and his BM control was top tier. The knock on DasElend was that he was a true fighter and wasn't as effective of a player when losing the advantage early or forced into a scrambling situation. Regardless, DasElend was one of the very best Orc players to ever play.
Lightweight - LW's second mention on this list. LW was DarknessCalls' protege, and he was an incredible Orc player with BM or DR. He was pure, aggressive, and very tough to beat. His Orc was absurd and he would often 1v2 and in battles and come out on top.
y.zenchenko (y.z) - y.z. was the cookie cutter Orc FFA player played at the highest level. He abused Hex/Stomp as well as anyone. He had elite ward usage! The map was always dotted with Sentry Wards. He understood army composition perfectly at all food counts. y.z. was especially scary because he would frequently find times to hoard and knew how to get the most value out of situations.
Plush - I only played about 5 games vs Plush, but he makes this list because he was simply incredible with Wyvern micro. He would rarely play bats but rather focus on mass Wyvern/Caster with insane Hero micro. He would fight 50 vs 80 and force TPs or gain huge value trade. There was no better Wyvern micro Orc player. He was an Orc player that had the potential to be the best ever. On a downside, Plush was easily manipulated and didn't always respond well to getting teamed.
Nline - Nline was awesome! The consummate FFA pro. He would play DR and BM, but he was known for Alch/TC/SH. Nline had almost top tier Micro while having an amazing FFA sense and knack for winning games. Always a scary fighter, he would stay in fights instead of TP and literally fight his way out of them for what seemed like minutes. Notably, his Walker usage was incredible and always played a very cool style that was easy to root for.
:ne: ELF: :ne: Night Elf is a cool FFA race that can be played in many ways. It is quite versatile and that is evident with the various styles of players that made this list.
F-L-Y - The original best FFA player. He played in an era with a lot of skilled opponents and would consistently beat them. He played DR/Panda/Potm elf and incorporated Dotts and Lore units too. F-L-Y's micro was good, but his macro was the best ever. He would engage you in battle while having Chims siege your main base and expansions. He would split his army up and play strategic battles. He was also relentless; once you were in a 1v1 with him you had to expect to be sharp and control multiple groups and bases or else fall to the constant pressure.
Nooblex - Panda/Potm/Kotg. Nooblex was one of the best Elf players ever without having top tier micro. He was extremely smart and understood how to win games and how to have the advantage vs his opponents. One of his philosophies with Elf was to either be 50 or 100 food, rarely 80. He was elite at managing gold, building bases, and choosing his spots. His bases were beautiful and he was patient in his actions.
Wrecktify - The most successful FML player of all time, Wrecktify was also a very smart player. He didn't have elite micro but definitely could compete. Most importantly, he knew how to win games. He had a knack for making the right decisions and putting himself in a position to win better than anyone else. He understood how to communicate with others and utilize a specific in-game situation to his advantage. He was also a high level Human player.
Lost.Ancient - My favorite Elf player when I first started, he played Warden/Kotg/Panda with excellent micro and a decisiveness that was unmatched. It seemed like he knew exactly what he needed to do and went straight for it. He played Lore units primarily (MG/Dryad) and would tear up Human and opposing Elf players. His hero combo stood out more than anything and he had incredible control of each of his heroes. He was insanely good with Warden blinking and FoK and DR silencing and eventually charming units into his army. He also built great bases and loved to fight + not manipulate.
Under.StA - The original solo pro turned FFA player. Under.Sta played DH/Panda/Kotg and had incredible micro. As he learned FFA army compositions and how to manipulate he quickly became the best Elf player for a period of time.
j33 - One of the most clever players to ever play. He famously won an FML title against me when he hid a Tree of Life on the one cliff/spot on Harvest of Sorrows. I couldn't find it for the longest time and he eventually destroyed my last building with Treant summons from his Kotg after I killed it! It was arguably the most epic finish of any FML final (I can think of one other one on Twilight). In addition to that game, j33 also had a knack for winning games. I remember j33 the most for being the most skilled at navigating through a 3-way.
Renaud - Renaud! Renaud was obviously a brilliant wc3 mind. I used to love talking strategy with him. He was a very good Human player before he turned to Elf. Renaud would hoard gold better than anyone and he also made great decisions and didn't tilt. His micro was never top tier, but he maximized Chippo's effectiveness and could definitely win any game he was in. He was also famous for not having wood. Namely not spending any gold that wasn't absolutely necessary (including additional wood wisps :icon_lol)
Trunkz - Trunkz has been playing for the last couple of years. He likes to talk shit and thinks he is the best player to ever play but he can back up a lot of it through his micro. He plays DH/Naga/Potm and Hippo Riders/Dotts, but never Chimeras. He is the most dominant fighter in today's era and would be one of the best fighters in any era. He even manipulates now when he has huge advantages which is unfortunate. The knock on Trunkz is that he is the definition of a one-trick-pony. He only plays that race, hero combo and strategy. In fact, he emphatically declined to play an epic 12-way on Divide and Conquer recently because it didn't have a tavern. His lack of a well-rounded FFA game is made up for by his skill with the strategy he plays, he is a very tough fighter. He innovated with Naga as a second hero and uses Cyclone better than any other elf I've faced.
:ud: UNDEAD: :ud: Undead is the weakest race in FFA. UD can compete and surely win games but they are given weak bases and poor healing mechanics. In addition to that, their main unit (gargoyle) is overpriced. Chims, Bats, and Tanks all own Undead. Still, Undead has the potential to be great if you can fight well and take advantage of opportunities. The following players get a little bit more respect from me due to the fact that they played Undead. As you can see, there have been few top tier Undead players.
Magadansky - Aside from LW, Maga was my other fierce rival for a long time. He was The O.G. In my opinion, he was the best FML player of all time. He is right behind Wrecktify in FML titles. To quote Lightweight, Magadansky "played great in every single game and could win any game he was in". He was an Undead player that had the best FFA sense combined with high level micro and manipulation. The most prominent thought that I have when it comes to Maga is his consistency. He would always perform at a high level no matter what.
Tyrant - FML Champion, he won the final game against j33 and Magadansky and outplayed Maga in UD mirror. Tyrant had near top tier micro and understood FFA as well. He still plays now but never was a huge part of the scene.. However, when he played he was always one of the best Undead players and one of the most recent ones.
DV - DV is one of the best player's in today's game and he was also a top competitor in PlayFFA times. He won one of the seasons during it's most competitive time (seasons 1-5). Very good micro and awareness of other players, plus he will fight first and foremost before chat. Recently he plays cool combos like DL/Panda/DK or DL/Alch/DK.
Yane - Yane could have an argument for the Best FFA player ever. He was on a completely different level microwise. Yane had the best micro of any FFA player... even better than the likes of htrt, Cechi, and Yaws in my opinion. Plus... he played Undead! He would famously dual-tech by using a Banshee to possess opposing races workers. He had a sick army one game of Wyrms/Tanks with Inner Fire Priests :icon_surprised:. He was often teamed hardcore and didn't stay in the scene for too much, but was an active FFA player for about a year.
PencilWarrior - PencilWarrior was the original best Undead player, on the same level as F-L-Y and Lost.Ancient skill wise. He often played DL first and had ridiculous micro with gargs, stone form and scrolls. A common thought I had when thinking of Pencil is..."Oh shit, level 6 DL" :icon_mrgreen:
:ra: RANDOM::ra: I give the most respect to a player that can play all races. I feel that is the ultimate testament of skill and a well-rounded game. Some players can play 2 races well, others can play all decently, but the following players could play all races at near equal levels and compete with anyone.
Persuade - Persuade was one of the best FFA players and excellent with all races. He always played Random and could compete at the highest level with any race. I think Orc was his best race, but they were all really close. His Orc could be on the Orc list also. Persuade and I played together for a lot of our "prime" and were rivals as skilled Random players. Persuade (along with LW) are two of the best players to never win an FML title. In fact, Persuade was in that FML final game I mentioned before with myself that j33. and j33. ended up winning.
Alien - One of the few players still playing today to make these lists. Alien was not as good back in the day, but he always played and eventually became a top tier player. He is also excellent with all races and never backs down from a fight. Alien is kind of similar to Persuade in a lot of ways. Skilled with all races and always a threat in any game he is in. Alien is one of the best players now and would compete at a high level in any era.
Brain.Man - Brain.Man aka TheThroneIsMine was a super talented player that was always on the fringe. When he played WC3, he said he would ruin his life because he wouldn't work or hang out with his girlfriend or family. He would often sell his PC to prevent himself from playing... but would come back for periods of time. As for his skills... he was a top tier Random player and especially good with Human or Orc. His Human and Orc would make the above lists too. He was absolutely unique in his play style. I remember him most when bitterly competing with him for the FML ladder titles 2012 and 2013. Really he was a cool (and strange) guy that was one of the best FFA players.
Eshan - Eshan makes this list with probably the worst micro of anyone mentioned. And I say that as a compliment. Eshan was the original manipulator and not just crying in chat but also playing a clever game that often won him games against opponents with better micro. Eshan was the "Legend Killer" because he would beat the best players in matches through other means than battles which was impressive. He knows how to stay in a game, survive, and end up winning maybe better than anyone else. Eshan also played Random and is/was good with all races.
F-L-Y - F-L-Y is mentioned under Random players because he was truly great with all races as well. His Undead was phenomenal and he actually won his FML title playing Orc and choosing DR/TC/SH :icon_mrgreen:.
* CONTINUED BELOW *
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Honorable Mentions (or too new):
Slythe - Slythe was one of the best Random players too but maybe just a notch below players like Persuade or Alien. Slythe had a unique style and played very cool hero combos and army compositions with all races. He was the perfect FFA player: Didn't manip too much, could fight and compete, and played various strategies and styles. Slythe was one of my personal favorite players.
Ostone - Ostone was a very strong Orc player for some time. He was the most recent complete Orc player and would be on the above lists with more longevity. He would always tech and play without grunts and get high level heroes quickly.
Qwest - Qwest is an Undead player with good micro and manipulation skills. Most notably, he is great at hoarding gold and picking his spots to seize opportunities. He reminds me of a Nooblex type of play style in the idea of "50 food or 100 food". He is an excellent ladder player, known for his style of hoarding and manipulating.
Cechi - This solo pro joined FFA when he was the best western Undead solo player in the world. His micro was ridiculous and he would only play mass fiends! Like 20 Fiends plus Banshees and supported by Wyrms/Destroyer. I played a stacked FML match against him on Battlegrounds once with Elf and he almost came back despite a significant gold disadvantage. He would burrow his fiends, I would reveal with a Dust and he would devour the Dust before I could kill the fiends :icon_eek:. He didn't play long and never really adapted his army compositions but it was a cool period of time when he played with us.
Ludix - Ludix was b100 before b100. Insane micro BM/TC/SH Orc player. Ludix had a more well rounded game compared to b100 and if you weren't careful Ludix would quickly roll over you with 100 food. Ludix would also manipulate in a lame style at times.
b100 - Plays today, b100 has better micro than anyone today except for maybe Trunkz. He knows how to play FFA and has a good style.. but he has limited strategy and not much for a comprehensive FFA game. Still a player that can beat anyone in battle and win games through dominant fighting.
Yaws - Yaws was the best solo player to ever play FFA (Yane has an argument). He picked up FFA pretty quickly and was absolutely dominant. Yaws would famously stay 50 food while maxing out all upgrades (building 2 blacksmiths) as fast as possible, and then jump to 100 food with an overwhelming army of Gryphon/Tank base. He was great and had better micro than everyone. He wasn't as well rounded and would lose at times vs players that he didn't completely dominate micro wise but had better FFA sense / strategy (see: Noexxx)
ujustgotshaved - Shave still plays and he is one of the better players that can compete in any game. He is a good Human and Orc player. Shave may not be as mentally tough (or care for that matter) to be a top player, but he is still surely a threat in any game he plays.
Mog[Skynet]- FML Champion; he fits the prototype for a winning FML player which is above average micro, but not great, combined with a great FFA sense. He had a tuned game awareness and was good at scouting and decision making. He won a nice final against Wreck for his title.
Vyvanne-of-Iel (Elsha)- - Elsha is as old school as they come, and he still plays today. He is a solid all-around FFA player that doesn't rely on manip or chat much! He ability to compete in any game has always been respected.
Gradient - Gradi has become a fan favorite with his play style and... unique language. He builds epic bases and plays fun hero combos. Don't rush him or break peace with him unless you are certain you will finish him. He has average micro and a knack for rebuilding and winning close games. In an era where many players are predictable, Gradient is not.
Rebuke[Skynet] - Rebuke was a solo pro turned FFA player that was a bit polarizing. He played Random but really was a Human player. He loved to play MK first... MK/Panda/Paladin and overwhelm with Tanks and Gryphons. He competed with the best FFA players but never took it serious enough to improve his game in other aspects.
ProtonXX - ProtonXX was the original NECROWAGON player! Rarely seen these days, Necrowagon can be extremely effective against Human and Elf. Proton played DK/Pitlord/DR. He was awesome and a fully prepped, 100 food wagon army could beat anyone in a straight up 1v1 fight. His weakness was of course, mobility or lack there of. He was strong enough to switch to gargs when needed and was a true FFA competitor back in the day.
Dovekie - Dovekie never played much FML, he played playFFA ladder though and frequented the forums. He had a WC3 mind and could discuss strategies and numbers regarding WC3 with the best of them. He would play Tinker first with Elf (Tinker/Panda/Potm) which owned Humans and Tanks and generally had a unique viewpoint when he came to FFA and how he approached games.
NOTE* I'm sure I forgot some players. Help me out! Who did I miss?
I'm interested in hearing your opinions and what you think of these lists as well.
Long Live FFA!
sEksi
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Amazing read, especially for someone like me who missed "the old times". Thanks Seksi. I would love to see you adding legends with special play style (even if they were not on the highest level), like Gradi today.
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Thanks, HighTac. I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I am not familiar with Gradiant's playstyle. How does he play?
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Edited
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I'll comment more later at break on work.
But seksi you're missing so many people.
Rice, SS the real pioneer of Dr tc sh not darkness. Fergo, pencilwarrior and much more.
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AH, how could I forget Rice. I will add him!
I know SS was the inventor of DR TC SH but Darkness was the most dominant with it and most known for it as I see it.
I don't know much about SS, Fergo or Pencilwarrior for that matter. Could you provide some insight on these players?
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Also XX had several hero combos. At the end I believe it was a lot of dk panda dl or dk panda dr or dk panda ok.
I also think it's worth noting mr.sparkle. Not because he was one of the best humans(no offense buddy). But because he played ground human. He didn't rely on tanks gryphs or gyros. Rifleman was his DPS and he was pretty good with it. Caught many people by surprise a lot.
Xx is the only person to reach rank 1 and rank 2 at the same time in us east. I believe Ebo achieved rank 1 the most different times. F-l-y is the highest level rank 1 ever on us east at 51 IIRC.
Ss not only invented dr tc sh but he went ground orc where darkness went more air.
Please remember my memory is from RoC to like 2011 or so. I'll do top players, bad mannered, and unique playstyle.
My personal list is:
Human:
Fergo original top human, more of a legend that few actually played with.
Snamuh target and wrecktify.
Most bad mannered or frustrating to olay against:
Camp_and_spank solo am mass towers and tank abuse
Most unique playstyle:
Mr.sparkle. ground human with no tanks
Night elf
F-l-y blex under.sta
Most bad mannered and funny:
ZAKAZULU THE CAPS LOCK WARRIOR
Most unique:
Quakeguy went dots and MGs
Orc:
Rice original ground orc
Ss ground orc with Dr tc s h
DASE, PLUSH y.z. darkness lel and there's more that I'm forgetting
Most bad mannered idk actually
Most unique I guess SS for the hero combo and army comp
Undead
Pencilwarrior for the 70+ win percent
Xx maga
Most unique xx for sure. Inventor of proto(4v4), early necropolis and necrowagon. Also used "odd" hero combos like panda
Random:
Eshan ebo alien
Ebo is the best imo cause he has achieved rank 1 more times than anyone over an extremely long period of time with many different players.
I'm forgetting a lot this is just what I remember.
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Very impressive list. Eventhough I started playing from s21, I am glad I got the chance to play against some of these players like Maga, UnderSTa, Nline, among others.
GJ Seksi.
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Great stuff seksi!
I really wish I had a better memory but I do remember the likes of lordfergo very well. He had insane stats with human on every ladder and was the first to ever use human to its full potential.
Back in the day before Starcraft ruined the scene I was competing with fly and rice mainly for rank 1 on east ladder. This was before your time obviously but those are the 2 guys I remember the most especially since me and fly had a rivalry. Way back there was also Marn, Marko.lord.serb, mt_doom (rly good with necros) and Killer.Dk. As for orcs the main ones I fought were rice and shadow_soul but there was also emissary omega with a very unique style which I might try soon for fun :)
Among all these players there are a lot more clan lone preteamers (only kidding) that my clan had a nice rivalry with! Wed always own them at 4s and me and battle suck would take anybody on in 2s xD
Anyway the real question is who IWANTWC4! Nice memory
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Well done Seksi.
Those write-ups by you are always nice.
I agree with most of it, too. Some players i donīt know enough to comment, but probably i can add something to certain players etc.
I like the idead of influencal players, some sort of "gimmick" players (= with very unique style) or simply favorite players.
First some comments:
I remember rebbats as a very good aggressive fighter (pretty low apm, yet nice control), who would navigate quite well throgh a game although he had a very limited output of chat. From my games with him he was really hard to communicate with because his unwillingness to talk (more). For my taste he was way too often stubborn.
Trunkz sticks to his style but added some stuff to his army and strategies. He even built some chimeras the other day or tried different army mixes with the good synergistic hero combo.
Persuade was not only outside but often also inside of games too much of a troll. Abandoning winning for the sake of heavily messing around.
Brainman is similar to me as Bryan is. They both are really good (random) ffaer with doing nearly no micro mistakes, abusing the strongest stuff, being relentless manippers.
Too bad brainman appeared to be as a true maniac, while the other likes to maximizing his win % with things like mh, preteam or abusing bugs.
Some additions:
Human:
Q-Veta: Although he was a big troll, often very harsh and unmannered in man ways he had a good way of playing ffa. Mixing up aggressive strats with good timings for hoard and manips. Also liked how he was able to use the bloodmage to fight orc effectively.
Elf:
Redkeekee was a very passionated ffaers with strong micro and a good understanding for macro and strategical decisions. He lacked a bit of staying cool in the heat of the battle from time to time, but other than that he is among the top 10 elfs for me.
Orc:
LeL had a special style. Using panda/tc/sh most of the time. Building the "deathstar" (orc stronghold framed by towers) and never going wyvvers. His micro was not top notch, but he made that up with good ffa sense, a tryhard attitude and the mighty powers of the orc-race.
Undead:
Qwest has sick micro and can be really sneaky and ruthless with his manipping. I rarely seen him fight vs orc or human ( and i saw him struggling vs human quite some time, which is not a big surprise though given some imbalances in that MU) but he is one of the best in ud vs ud/elf.
Random:
Seksi/Iskes/Seksi_returns: Donīt remember more akas atm ^^. Since you did not mention urself someone else has to, i guess :).
Seksi has strong overall classic ffa skills like decision making, strategies, timing and manip paired with slick micro. Sometimes he tries a bit too hard with over the edge manip, which led to some grudges i suppose and at other times he lacks the ultimate competetive spirit (referring to focusing on winning only).
When in the right mood and shape he is a top player of all time, ez.
Honorable mentions:
Lovetrance: Mostly DR/PB/Potm chippo elf with good control and standout ffa sense and mind.
One of the guys who keeps it real with his style and is one of the "gimmick" players these days is Gradient. He has strong creeproutes and builds good bases, together with mostly only hoarding or 100 style adding some relentless harrasing to his resume.
Unholdydreadlord/Hydro: Strong undead strategies beside the standard cheese, a lot of experience and effective manipulations.
Elsha-of-Iel: Another very good DR/TC/SH user with ground army mostly. Strong micro, hard to manipulate, but maybe not as tryhard as some other top players.
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Great write-up Seksi.
Seksi should be in the list of top undead players and top random players list in my opinion. One of the strongest players i've faced in FFA with great micro, decision making and cunning play. I learned lots from you, yane, htrt, maga when I entered the scene. Your weakness in your prime was your tendency to overdo it to secure your win. Especially in regards to manip you would hurt other players' chances to a point they would suicide you in that game and future games. Diplomacy, reputation and behavior is very important in FFA. Really important. This is something I think Noexxx and j33 truly excel at and I think their likeliness in the community helped them to get big achievements and results :-).
I would swap DV with Cechi as DV dominated the scene for undeads when you weren't around. DV together with tyrant have achieved much more than Cechi in FFA. I have always considered DV a rival of mine and equally skilled opponent.
It's tough to place Ostone really as he was both good with undead and orc, but never really top caliber in my opinion (micro wise), but overall he's a top ffa player that I respect deeply because of his kindness, sharp intellect, strategies and decision making.
Bryan is best with orc but also a strong rdm player from my memory? Anyway, I think he deserved to be in this list - at the very least in honorable mentions. The only reason he's not respected as much is probably because of his arrogant attitude, bad english and ladder activities instead of FML.
Tyrant is a top tier undead when he decides to compete. Right now I consider him the best undead in the league.
I would also consider placing junkerzam in honorable mentions as undead with the limited knowledge I have as a relative newcomer to the scene compared to the ancient players.
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Quick note as well. Myself hydro xx me.sparkle. are all on US east in clan s4s. Hydro is rank 1 4s rt.
I even saw flameseeker and audigy the other day.
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Great replies guys! I missed a lot of players worth noting, thx for your all of your input.
I'll revise the lists with your suggestions soon.
IWANTWC4 - you, hydro, xx and sparkle are still play on BNet? You all should join the Discord channel
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Great replies guys! I missed a lot of players worth noting, thx for your all of your input.
I'll revise the lists with your suggestions soon.
IWANTWC4 - you, hydro, xx and sparkle are still play on BNet? You all should join the Discord channel
I'm there. Was karfal now as DONALD-TRUMP
I'll tell them to when I see them again. Usually once or twice a week.
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Lightweight - My ultimate Rival! :icon_biggrin: Lightweight was absolutely a top tier Human and Orc player. A fearsome player that was very well rounded in all aspects of FFA.
I was mentally weak and impatient though :icon_wink:. If i had the patience from J33 i could have had more impact. Also you mentioned me three times Seksi, people may think we have a bromance going on :icon_redface:.
I can't really comment on everything so i picked my favorites to discuss;
Fly: Agreeing with you about original best player. He was very versatile and could play any race. Also his micro was on top. He is from the elder generation and clan lone legend.
Magadansky: One of the toughest opponents to ever play against. No real weakness as a player, everything beyond excellent. Only weakness was his race. After some time i realized if i tanked him in the early game, there is not much undead can do. Doesn't mean it always worked out for me. :icon_rolleyes:
Htrt: Even PlzLeaveDuck feared him and he was afraid of nobody. Maybe not the most title wins, but probably the one who will be in most people's top3 list of best players.
Nline: Another unfinished one. Played a lot of FML-Finals and had a great overall understanding of the gametype. In his late years he lacked a little on micro, but who doesn't when we get older...
J33: In my imagination he was a Snorlax. Lazy, patient, afk ingame. Who would even want to attack him? He didn't hurt anyone. Overall nice guy, only remember one game where he got mad afterwards.
Yane: Recently i hear from people he wasn't as good and overrated. I join Seksi here, best micro from any ffa player, got teamed 3v1 in fml finals and in most of his games. Speaks for himself. :icon_cool:
Yaws: The best so called "solo pro-gamer" to adapt to the ffa gametype. Didn't lose interest because of the sometimes annoying ffa dynamics and stood up his man. Probz for that.
All the others, i didn't forget about you, but i don't want to make it a 3 page statement :icon_wink:.
Edit: For those wonder where the hell Hydro and Persuade are;
Hydro is playing south park on steam while Persuade is owning dota 2 momentarily.
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what is greatness? well its one step down from godliness, which is me. these 5 in no order are the only ones ive sweated in a decade of demolishing all who stand in my way *cue evil laughter*
1) persuade
2) lw
3) maga
4) maga (hes like 3-1 vs me in finals he gets listed twice ok?)
5) eshan
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I'd note that I think Persuade's biggest downfall was he lacked the killer instinct all the top players have, and always wanted to be too fair. If he realized someone was being overteamed, even if it was benefiting him, he'd switch back to teaming the correct person. Just the type of person he is, however never able to be one of the best because of that. Also he refused to not play random, and despite what he said he could dominate with Orc way more than anything else.
Duck when he wasn't being an ass and was taking the game seriously was a top player. That being said, I doubt he was able to string more than a couple of those games together (though he should have had a title if not for that disc.).
Pencil I think deserves a spot just for being such a legend back in the day, bit hard to know how he really compared.
Fury actually took FFA seriously for a while, and is probably the best solo player to ever take the time to learn the game. That being said, I was only vaguely paying attention back then so one of the more old school people would have to provide some more info. I know he played at least one full season though.
Yaws had the opportunity to become one of the best FFA players of all time I think, he played Human which is obviously imba, and knew how to capitalize on it. That being said, I had to constantly remind him to play his matches and he never practiced so he got taken off guard and lost to some silly things from time to time that most serious FFA players wouldn't (Audigy's necrowagon beating Yaws is still a top memory for me)
Renaud gets points for consistency in my eyes, and while he may not top the charts in terms of micro he has an uncanny ability to know what's going on at all times and has insane FFA sense from the 100 Million games he's played and observed.
Sk2Flash had the potential to be a top player I think, however never played long enough to maintain that. Still, great micro and grew to learn about FFA.
L77 is an honorable mention for building enough towers to almost break the game, and then rage quitting the season after winning never to be heard from again. Seriously, that's impressive as most people at least show up from time to time.
Rain and Starshaped I have mixed feelings on. Cross between Duck and Flash in that they both showed incredible promise when they were trying, however also dicked around and never took it too seriously. Still, Rain did end up with a championship somehow.
Htrt has to be on everyone's top 3 list, and if he played longer and more consistently I think would make everyone's list as the best player.
Maga & Wreck should always be paired together to me. Clearly the top two FFA players, and they switch position depending on any number of questions. All told, Wreck is still here and kicking so I think he gets #1 by default (that being said in both of their primes I have Maga by a hair)
LW is far and away one of the most erratic on and off players, however there's no doubting he's one of the top players when he's on. Everyone feared him (as well as feared if he would play the game rational or just take out folks because he could), and one of the most fun players to watch I think.
YZ and Dase come to mind together for me, similar time period, similar dominance, and similar getting teamed out time and time again during the period where we really really hated Orcs.
Darkness was a force to be reckoned with when he was around, and I think suffers from never taking a title and not being around to face a lot of the newer FML players who had better micro.
Seksi is tough to place, far and away the most consistent and dominant player in multi-game formats (so many FML and PlayFFA season titles or top finishes), but never managed to finish out an FML final with a win. Clearly a player who could win any match at any time though.
Worpex - We're on his site, we have to be nice to him!
That's everything that comes to mind instantly, though obviously I'm forgetting folks/not touching some that I think everyone has already covered a bunch. Nostalgia is the best.
P.S. Sup guys
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Interesting post and very good list as well!! I've been lucky enough to have watched and played with a lot of these players over the years. I have mixed opinions on many of them from complete agreement to otherwise.
Because i'm bored, ill do a little round up. If I were to make a HoF, it'd look something like this:
The FFA Legends:
These players DEFINED FFA. The guys that got us all into the scene and we all looked up to. They may not play any longer or be on the same skill level as current pros, but we still remember them for their contributions to the scene and amazing games...
:USA: :ra: F-L-Y [Best Random Player Ever Pre-S10]
:Sweden: :hu: Target [Absolutely dominated FML from S2-S6]
:USA: :orc: Invincible_Rice [Before my time, but well renowned for tearing up b.net]
:USA: :ne: Nooblex [Invented the Old Elf Macro Meta and created the single greatest FFA guide which allowed many of us to become better players]
:USA: :ne: Lost.Ancient [Best elf player i've personally ever seen.]
:USA: :ud: PencilWarrior [The only dominant UD player in FFA in the early years]
:Russia: :orc: LeL [Founder of the Russian FFA scene and was a dominate orc pre-S10]
Honorable Mentions: :Austria: :orc: DasElend, :Ukraine: :orc: Nline, :USA: :orc: Plush, :USA: :ud: UnholyDreadlord, :USA: :hu: Snamuh
The Modern Day Heroes:
The players active during the modern day era of FML [Post S10] which have made a major impact in the scene and FFA Meta
:Germany: :hu: Humans7ar [I've always credited him for bringing human out of the tower meta. Amazing micro human]
:Germany: :orc: Lightweight [Specifically his Orc which transformed the orc meta from the old Russian Deathstar to a more micro heavy style akin to Plush. Few Orcs during this period had the impact on the scene that LW had.]
:Finland: :ne: j33 [Elf has always been a macro race, but j33's macro made even Nooblex look like a scrub. Always seems to find himself in the finals of FML seasons.]
:USA: :orc: DarknessCallsMe [Best micro orc i've ever seen play. Hasn't been an orc this good since he quit and maybe never will be.]
:USA: :ra: Seksi [An an extremely dominant period from S14 to S17 thanks to great micro and great FFA sense.]
:Canada: :ne: Renaud [While he had little impact on the games meta, FML itself would not exist without Renaud's contributions]
:USA: :ud: Ugrilainen [Again, no impact on the meta but he founded PlayFFA, the FFA ladder and ran multiple side events for the scene.]
Honorable Mentions: :Denmark: :hu: zTsoso, :USA: :ud: PLZLEAVEDUCK, :USA: :ne: Mog[Skynet], :Hungaria: :ud: Tyrant66, :Peru: :hu: SuperCumulo, :USA: :ra: Persuade
The ELITE 4
These are the best players to ever play the game. Want a dream FFA match? These are the 4 players.
:USA: :ne: Wrecktify [Smartest FFA player to ever play and holds the record for most FML titles.]
:Bulgaria: :ud: Magadansky [Best Micro in FFA. Longest period of total domination ever.]
:Canada: :hu: HTRT [Most electric player to ever play in FML. I've always thought that he was good enough to show up in FML and win the whole season whenever he felt like it. And he did so.
:Switzerland: :hu: Noexxx [Best player currently active right now. Has the potential to become as dominant as Magadansky]
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Would be really interesting if someone started up an official Hall Of Fame with new players voted in every season!
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Great comments from everyone!
I will edit the original posts but the replies are gold.
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Cool thread. Im a big fan of such stuff in sports history, the Book of basketball and that kind of things. So for me there are 3 main parameters: career lenght, style/impact on game meta and achievements
So here's my top (I did not think for too long on this, sorry!)
1. Maga - super long and stable career always on top level except for his last season, recognizable playstyle that established undead's game for years and 3 titles (plus 4 finals i think? maybe 5) Simply MJ of FFA. First name u have in mind when u say "FML"
2. Wreck - looooong career too and also biggest gap between first and last FML titles ever. 4 fucking titles in NOT anonymous league - C R A Z Y. No playstyle unfortunately, maybe except letting us know DR-Panda-Kotg is actually the strongest combo for NE.
3. HTRT - #1 FFA performer ever. Incredible micro, he understood how FFA works maybe the best of all. No need to talk about playstyle and influence on FFA - he's the only player you always want to watch. Every time he returns is like my birthday.
Very little career and one title.
4. Yane - #2 FFA performer ever. Sick micro. As an undead I felt so bad watching how he was managing his army in fight! I knew I could never do the same. Very little FML career and no titles.
5. Lightweight - only player except for Wreck who could play 2 races on TOP (best of everyone else) level. And only player who could literally dominate with 2 races. Best player who never won fml. Long career and huge impact on FFA game meta.
6. Persuade - I just love him. He was so cool for all races and always had good playstyle that was never based on too much chat. Long and stable career.
7-8-9-10. Soso, Noexxx, j33, Duck.
I would mention Alien, Eshan, Qwest, Renaud, y.z, Ludix, seksi, brain.man and tyrant and maybe a couple of other guys too.
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Thatīs my personal Top10 of all time atm. (in following order):
Magadansky
Yane
htrt
F-l-y
DarknessCalled
Soso
Noexxx
Wrecktify
Seksi
Plush
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After seeing some people's list. I think there should really be 2 separate lists. FML is much different than somewhat anon ladder games.
However I still believe seeing someone like fly have success in both I believe pencilwarrior Would have as well.
What id really like to see though is how the best orcs dealt with noexxx's unstoppable rush. I don't think it can be done honestly but who knows.
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After seeing some people's list. I think there should really be 2 separate lists. FML is much different than somewhat anon ladder games.
However I still believe seeing someone like fly have success in both I believe pencilwarrior Would have as well.
What id really like to see though is how the best orcs dealt with noexxx's unstoppable rush. I don't think it can be done honestly but who knows.
Saying PencilWarrior didn't have success in FML is actually very wrong. He only played 1 season (S3) and advanced to the Finals of that season, where he lost to Target. He wasn't active during much of the FML years, sadly. He quit soon after the final. Had he played longer, he would have won a season.
For those who want to look back in time more, here is a FML finals history: http://ffamasters.net/index.php?topic=2439.0
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After seeing some people's list. I think there should really be 2 separate lists. FML is much different than somewhat anon ladder games.
However I still believe seeing someone like fly have success in both I believe pencilwarrior Would have as well.
What id really like to see though is how the best orcs dealt with noexxx's unstoppable rush. I don't think it can be done honestly but who knows.
Saying PencilWarrior didn't have success in FML is actually very wrong. He only played 1 season (S3) and advanced to the Finals of that season, where he lost to Target. He wasn't active during much of the FML years, sadly. He quit soon after the final. Had he played longer, he would have won a season.
For those who want to look back in time more, here is a FML finals history: http://ffamasters.net/index.php?topic=2439.0
O geez thanks for memory lane. I didn't know he was there. But some of those guys... smrt and lok and many others.
Reminds me of when I was like 13-17 again.
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I would say top 10 all time would be:
1. Magadansky - Best player in FFA for the longest period in time. Most wins in FML history, one of the most balanced players to ever play
2. Wrecktify - Most successful FML player ever, one of the smartest FFA players to ever play who has adapted well with all of the changes in FFA play over the years
3. HTRT - Probably the best OVERALL talent to ever play FFA. He was basically the ultimate example of the kind of player who needed to be teamed if he was anything less then totally dead. Excellent game sense and overall skill
4. NOEXXX - Maga was probably the best player in FFA from season 10 until somewhere around season 20 or so, and NOE now holds that title. Extremely balanced player with no weaknesses, has the potential to become #1 if he continues this success
5. Lightweight -Best player to never win a title. I am maybe the only person who hold this opinion, but I believe him to be the BEST overall orc FFA player to ever play and his human was equally as good as his orc.
6. Seksi - Best random player to play, extremely long period as a dominate player, similar to LW he is one of a few who definitely deserves an FML title.
7. J33 - Maybe he doesn't have the dominate micro of the others, but there is NO ONE who has pulled off as many wins in "unwinnable" games as he has. A pure FFA player whos 2 titles and overall wins speak for itself.
8. Persuade - Another excellent random player with great overall skillset who played and won for a long time. Very comparable to seksi in overall skill, only made 1 final (i think) and did not win but certainly was considered a top 5 player in FFA for many seasons and years
9. Yane - Yane is like HTRT, could have been a top 3 player but just didnt hang around long enough to get the resume. His micro skill was unbelievable, and he had excellent understanding of FFA. Like HTRT, had he stuck around longer he would be higher ranked here. Second best undead to ever play FFA
10. Renaud - Renaud is not at the skill level overall of the above players, but NO ONE HAS PLAYED MORE FFA GAMES IN HUMAN HISTORY THEN THIS MAN. He has literally been around for all 26 seasons of FML and has been competitive in them. His style hasnt changed in 10 years, but his accomplishments cannot be argued that he is one of the most distinguished players to ever play
Other players who come to mind: ztsoso, humanstar, mog, tyrant, duck, DV, qwest, darknesscalls, daselend, nline, yz, brainman, Rain, Flash, Yaws, Cumulo
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In FFA you kind of have to rank players based on their level of dominance during the time they played
Because of course now that people have been playing this game for 15+ years, the level of skill is overall quite high. But if Target, for instance, had kept playing these past 8 or so years since he quit, he would be a lot better too. And then there are some players who would have dominated in any time period, even now. Players like Target, FLY, HTRT, Yane, DarknessCalls, Noexxx would beat anyone nowadays.
Thank you Seksi and all for bringing some really old names back into recognition...just want to shout out a few players like Elsha of EIL who was as good as Alien but without the rage, DV for being a dark sith lord, ZAKAZULU for being the most ridiculous FFA player ever, Darkness for being the ying to my yang for many years while we competed for rank 1, and FLY for being an FFA God.
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Updated thread and added some names.
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5. Lightweight -Best player to never win a title. I am maybe the only person who hold this opinion, but I believe him to be the BEST overall orc FFA player to ever play and his human was equally as good as his orc.
Not the only one Steppin, TomToast has the same opinion :P.
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5. Lightweight -Best player to never win a title. I am maybe the only person who hold this opinion, but I believe him to be the BEST overall orc FFA player to ever play and his human was equally as good as his orc.
Not the only one Steppin, TomToast has the same opinion :P.
It's too bad you won't come back to FFA. I know you don't want to tarnish your reputation and all ;). I am sure you will be back for Reforged, right?
6. Seksi - Best random player to play, extremely long period as a dominate player, similar to LW he is one of a few who definitely deserves an FML title.
See? If you come back to we can both play an FML season together. Plus with modern matchmaking and the influx of new players, BNet ladder will be active and competitive again.
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these guys watching fml 2k18 ? Gradient > all of them all, noexxx was first
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Well Seksi made the list one year ago b100death so there isn't the best recent players.
Yes, i will Seksi. Holy shit i can't wait for the open beta of Reforged. I love 4v4 rt but it is not enjoyable right now with the current matchmaking where u play with 0:50 guys uprooting their tree or tk like every 2nd game.
My suggestion: Allow people only to create one account and bind them this way. Smurfs ruin the game in my opinion. Solo players play against pro's who smurf and they play different. It was the same in FFA because u approach the game in a different way against Top10 players. It prevents a meta-game between the pro's.
Also leavers and teamkillers need to be punished. Therefore they should implement a report system. You will see how fast the manners gonna change.
And i wish push to talk for reforged in RT games for better teamwork. It is about time.
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@b100death I'll add Lord Gradient to the post.
@Lightweight Hell yea man, me too. Those are some good ideas for RT. I am pretty sure there won't be away to smurf or make multiple accounts on Reforged.
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Been around since season 10, here's my two cents:
:hu: HUMAN :hu:
HTRT - Genius ffa player and micro monster. Guy was basically the "perfect" FFA player. I think pound for pound he is the strongest FFA player I've ever seen and its a pity he only played in a few FML seasons
NOEXXX - Probably the closest thing to htrt, great micro and unique style of player. Among the best I've seen at taking a 2v1 on and making it look almost easy. Probably in top 3 all time
Lightweight - Nearly as good as the above though he seemed to fall apart in games where he was not ahead. Top level player overall though, except when seksi was in the same game and they just suicide. Also worth noting he was a top orc as well
:orc: orc :orc:
DasElend and Darkness - Lived in a different era but could easily had the same micro skills as the top players today. Very strong overall FFA players who dominated for 5+ seasons
Ludix - IMO the strongest orc player ever. Absolutely insane micro, but also amazing scouting and map awareness with BM (no doubt from his solo skills). Was basically the kind of player who if he was alive and had heroes you had to team him or you would just lose. Better 100 food micro then any other orc player I've ever seen, I don't think any player ever could beat him 100 v 100
Nline - The ageless orc wonder, more of a macro oriented player but had the micro to compete with about anyone. Smart and careful player who could win games he had no business winning. I think he could play fine in FML today
:ud: undead :ud:
Maga - Most dominate player in FML for the longest time (10+ seasons of terror). Known for his outstanding micro, but also (less known) a very smart player who could play the macro, long drawn-out game as well as anyone. I would consider him top 3 easily.
Yane - Insane micro machine, but like htrt had a short lived career. Very successful in FML but always got teamed to death in playoff/finals games and probably quit due to that :(
Qwest/DV/Tyrant - I would rank them all about the same, best undeads since maga and very highly skilled players overall. I would give qwest the edge even though he was probably the least decisive player but was the best manipper and hoarder
:ne: elf :ne:
Wrecktify - AKA DFM aka 8D. Hilarious in game chat to make you think he was retarded until he will flip the tables on you and you would realize he's been trolling everyone all game... but in all seriousness the seasons he played as DFM were probably the best elf play I've seen in FFA, excellent combination of game sense, aggression, gold management, and always being in the right place at the right time. Top 3 with maga and noexxx IMO
j33/mog - excellent overall players, more tactical players with solid but not elite micro. Could win against anyone and come back from insane situations where most players would ALT Q. I think both rank SLIGHTLY below wreck due to being more naturally passive and predictable but in many cases you would know exactly what their game plan was and still lose
Renaud - After all these years, he can show up rustier then a decaying mummy and still play a competitive FFA game. Excellent game sense and macro, and his micro will surprise you if you underestimate him. I think his consistency as a good player (never top but definitely top 5-10 consistently) for like 20 seasons of FML speaks for itself
trunkz - 20 seasons of noobelves massing chims all of a sudden changed to massing dotts and no panda... but the results speak for themselves. Trunks bring a totally different style to elf and can dominate with micro of the best of them.
:ra: Random :ra:
Seksi - King of random, though I kind of think of him as an undead player. Seksi is an elite long time player who is quite possibly the best player with no FML title. Top tier with all 4 races, lots of different game strategies, and understands FFA as a whole very well
Persuade - Similar overall skill player to seksi, with great micro and ability with all 4 races. Also very similar to alien skill-wise as a random player. Played for a long time and was always a top competitor.
Eshan - Perhaps the biggest tryhard ever, and maybe thats what makes him so great. I'm not sure I've actually seen him as undead, but his elf/hu/orc are all excellent. He isn't a top microer, but he can hold his own in any game thanks to his cunning intellect and ruthless style
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I am the best. Top 1 ranking season 28 finals
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I'm the best ever, none of you soyboy beta cucks even come close :O!
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I made a best of list. I no longer need to worry about playing anymore seasons. Thanks for the shout out @SteppinRazor ! Much <3
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It was seriously touching - reading through all the mentions in this thread and the "top 5 favorite players" thread. That meant a lot, and it definitely will help if I bite the bullet and actually start playing again. I've been feeling the itch, I must admit. So maybe in a few months or so I'll come back to play.
Sucks ffareplays.com isn't around anymore - Do games get posted anywhere else? Is ladder worthwhile? Where do you guys play? Could someone post a link to custom hotkeys?
Top 2:
Invincible_Rice
Pencil
Anyone who said anything negative about Pencil's skill level was smoking something. He was a beast.
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Hey fly,
Glad you found this thread. FFA still lives on after all these years, however it is not as active right now. FML seasons continue, and there is currently a "King of FFA" season with fun rules.
There are different game types now such as Random heroes, no chat, etc. which make it interesting.
As for ladder, Europe BNet is the only ladder active now, but only during the mornings and early afternoons USA times.
As Reforged is released, surely FFA will be back. Just like any other sport, younger (or newer) players underestimate the skill of previous players. It would be awesome for you to come back and play and get back in shape in time for Reforged. There were a handful of players that would still compete with the best guys today, and I'm sure you could be one of them. As a whole, the average skill level of an FFA player has improved, but there are fewer "top tier" players now compared to in the past.
You should join the FML Discord channel, if you haven't already!
:ra: :ne: :ud: :orc: :hu:
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Oh boy, I'd have to play Euro ladder, huh (high ping) :(
I hope you're right about Reforged, I'd like to see the activity pick up and be able to get some quality ladder games in. Custom games are so-so to me, as my motivation always waned when it came to them. They just weren't as fun, and having no effect on stats decreased my competitive desire.
I'll give the discord a looksie when I buy a new computer to play on and am looking for games (not 100% sure I will be coming back, but the itch is there.).
Thanks for the reply back Seksi :)
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@fly are you the season 4 FML champion? :icon_surprised: . If so, please come back! we need to bring next title home!
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I am greatest
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@fly are you the season 4 FML champion? :icon_surprised: . If so, please come back! we need to bring next title home!
I am indeed. Got to be the person to stop Target from 3 peat-ing :)
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nice to see you on here fly! definitely join the discord, the link is on the main page
you might find the general skill level has improved a lot, but ffa sense, micro, and creativity are still cornerstones to winning games.
would be really exciting to have you back
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@fly: Hi Sammy, long time no see!