FFA Masters League
General => News => Topic started by: FML|Renaud on February 27, 2017, 11:07:46 pm
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:FMLN:
After talking about it with the other admins, we have decided to allow players to pause the game in order to communicate in FML games.
This will be counted in the player's max 3 pauses and max total 10 minutes of pause per game.
Players are NOT allowed to unpause someone else's pause to communicate.
If we ever find that this rule is being abused or makes the game frustrating to watch/play, we will consider banning it.
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tl dr; pause manip are ok for now
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Thank you very much for clarifying that Renaud ... I highly respect the work you admins put into FML!
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LET THE MANIP PAUSING ERA OF FML BEGIN!!!!
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What a terrible idea :D
At least it benifits people who type slow!
Aka me
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it will be like this:
Time will stop and dre and em are manipping poor you
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This is a step backwards:
1) A minority (if any) actually want this to happen.
2) It ruins the flow of the game if one can pause and use that to manipulate. FFA is supposed to be fast paced where one has to both chat, micro and macro at the same time. Its not a contest for players that chat and manip into victory.
3) If one player can pause for 10 mins and do that 3x times just to piss people off it can't be punished.
4) The games may get boring and long.
Instead of making this new rule it would be much better to punish unpausers and there would not be a problem.
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This is a step backwards
/signed
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3) If one player can pause for 10 mins and do that 3x times just to piss people off it can't be punished.
??
:FMLN:
If we ever find that this rule is being abused or makes the game frustrating to watch/play, we will consider banning it.
!!
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admnis WTF are u doing
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I want to reiterate one thing:
NO RULES HAVE BEEN CHANGED!! (or added)
This is simply a clarification on a gray area. Manip pausing was never formally banned in FML. As Renaud mentioned, there is a chance we will formally ban it but at the current moment it is legal.
So, its not a step-backwards, as nothing was changed.
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This is the most poorly worded "clarification" in the history of amateur Warcraft adminship.
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This is the most poorly worded "clarification" in the history of amateur Warcraft adminship.
We don't usually let Renaud make such posts but our lawyers said we needed to give him a bigger role on the team.
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I want to reiterate one thing:
NO RULES HAVE BEEN CHANGED!! (or added)
This is simply a clarification on a gray area. Manip pausing was never formally banned in FML. As Renaud mentioned, there is a chance we will formally ban it but at the current moment it is legal.
So, its not a step-backwards, as nothing was changed.
By forbidding unpausing you give unfair advantage to players who are not so good at multitasking and make this game unpleasant to watch. Let the players decide if they want this plause-manip or not.
There is one more thing. Imagine that you watch replay and you suddenly miss all the chat that was made in last 10 minutes. Not cool.
And yes. It is a rule changing.
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By forbidding unpausing you give unfair advantage to players who are not so good at multitasking and make this game unpleasant to watch. Let the players decide if they want this plause-manip or not.
There is one more thing. Imagine that you watch replay and you suddenly miss all the chat that was made in last 10 minutes. Not cool.
And yes. It is a rule changing.
I must completely agree with it.
1) It's an advantage for players who have poor multitask and micro skills but nice "talking skill".
2) It can sometimes leave us without hot and close game endings which are one of the best FFA (FML games, to be exact) aspects.
3) It is very uncomfortable for replay viewers.
4) It just makes games slower!
P.S. I am almost sure Renaud has smth about this decision in his mind or maybe admins are just trolling us a bit. If not, I would like to read some good opposing arguments from them.
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If we ever find that this rule is being abused or makes the game frustrating to watch/play, we will consider banning it.
Would you please explain this to me. Are you going to ban this rule or a player who abuse it?
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Its most dumb decision that was ever made by fml.
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If we ever find that this rule is being abused or makes the game frustrating to watch/play, we will consider banning it.
Would you please explain this to me. Are you going to ban this rule or a player who abuse it?
We are discussing banning this for Season 25 but don't want to change/add new rules during the middle of an event (team battle royale).
Anyone saying this is a rule change is absolutely being ridiculous. Someone had pause-maniped in a battle royale game earlier which caused a bit of a commotion. We wanted to clarify what the league's stance is on this behavior. Right now, it is allowed.
As I said before, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. This is a clarification post. When we make a rule change it will include the official wording, rule number and we will update the rule book page.
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If we ever find that this rule is being abused or makes the game frustrating to watch/play, we will consider banning it.
Would you please explain this to me. Are you going to ban this rule or a player who abuse it?
We are discussing banning this for Season 25 but don't want to change/add new rules during the middle of an event (team battle royale).
Anyone saying this is a rule change is absolutely being ridiculous. Someone had pause-maniped in a battle royale game earlier which caused a bit of a commotion. We wanted to clarify what the league's stance is on this behavior. Right now, it is allowed.
As I said before, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. This is a clarification post. When we make a rule change it will include the official wording, rule number and we will update the rule book page.
Just to clarify the situation - Do I am allowed to pause the game 3 times for 10 mins for manipping? And the other players are not allowed to unpause my pause?
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If we ever find that this rule is being abused or makes the game frustrating to watch/play, we will consider banning it.
Would you please explain this to me. Are you going to ban this rule or a player who abuse it?
We are discussing banning this for Season 25 but don't want to change/add new rules during the middle of an event (team battle royale).
Anyone saying this is a rule change is absolutely being ridiculous. Someone had pause-maniped in a battle royale game earlier which caused a bit of a commotion. We wanted to clarify what the league's stance is on this behavior. Right now, it is allowed.
As I said before, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. This is a clarification post. When we make a rule change it will include the official wording, rule number and we will update the rule book page.
Just to clarify the situation - Do I am allowed to pause the game 3 times for 10 mins for manipping? And the other players are not allowed to unpause my pause?
Rule 3.40b and 3.40c in the rule book should clarify that more. This is the current ruling on the situation:
3.40 Pausing Match
3.40a Limits
Pausing the match is allowed in consideration with the 3 timeouts per player limit. However, abuse of this system is considered unsportsmanlike and will have consequences.
3.40b Duration
A player is allowed to pause the game for up to 10 minutes (total across their 3 allowed pauses). After 10 minutes the other players can choose to resume the game at their own discretion without penalty.
3.40c Unpausing
When unpausing, players must get verbal indication from each other player that they are ready to resume, with the exception of players that have been away for over 10 minutes as per 3.40b.
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Horrible decision. Instead of making pause manipping implicitly disallowed you've now opened the flood gates for 10 min pause-and-spam fests.
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Horrible decision. Instead of making pause manipping implicitly disallowed you've now opened the flood gates for 10 min pause-and-spam fests.
Like Renaud already said, abuse will get all types of pause-manip banned pretty quickly. In fact, abusing this is already banned in rule 3.40a. Your example situation is, in my opinion, abuse.
I understand everyones concern and its definitely warranted. We're trying not to overly control the FFA games and just let players play. Right now we don't believe that pause-manip is being abused or overly used. Obviously if it becomes an issue we will take action.
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Players should not be allowed to talk about the current game during the pauses. If I want to go shit and need to pause, you allow players to continue manipping without me being able to countermanip.
The game can't continue during the pauses... they should only be available for people who really need them for something non-game relative
Also it makes no sense to wait for players to abuse that rule to forbid it when we can already prevently ban it. No one likes the manip pauses here except maybe Ena and Eshan :icon_wink:
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just a couple of clarifications:
-you don't get 3x pause of 10 min, for a total of 30 min; you get 10 min TOTAL
-if we allow pause manip, we MUST forbid unpause during pause manip, otherwise you get incident like the eshan-cumulo game, where eshan paused, and cumulo though it was a pause to manip so resume.
-like worpex said... this is technically not a new rule, it was just something that some admin (me) said was part of the grey area and started yelling whenever someone did. While I'm not a big fan of pause manip, I HATE grey areas. I would rather a rule I don't like than a rule that changes based on who the admin interpreting it is.
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-if we allow pause manip, we MUST forbid unpause during pause manip, otherwise you get incident like the eshan-cumulo game, where eshan paused, and cumulo though it was a pause to manip so resume.
Lol @ Culo manipping admins into believing his bullshit :icon_lol:
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otherwise you get incident like the eshan-cumulo game, where eshan paused, and cumulo though it was a pause to manip so resume.
yup, that's exactly what happened.
On this topic.
Personally I'm not a big fan of manipulating during pause, but I think it should be up to the players to allow such actions. For instance, let's say it's a 4 way, 40 mins into the game, then 1 pauses for 2 mins so the other 3 players should remain quiet, but ofc one of them will initiate some sort of talk that would drag into more talk if the other two participate; in other words, it is up to the players' responsability not to play along the manipulation chat initiated by one of the players. Put it simply be quiet during the pause or simply say: "guys please, let's stfu, shall we?"
Perhaps something that could be done is give warnings if people persist in manipulating during a pause, and only give penalty points after, let's say 2 warnings during the season, and the penalty could be between -5 and -10 pts. Of course the warning would have to be legitimate, if someone initiates manip during pause, but then shuts up, then there is no need for a warning, but if he continues maniping or saying the usual line of talk "I lost this, I broke early, I have no expo, he has higher lvls, etc", then a warning should be given.
Now that we are talking about the rules and grey areas, I think there are some aspects of the rule-book that can be improved and there should be an indication of how many points during the season will be taken off rather than simply saying "a penalty would be given" because this is open to arbitrary decision, and imo it's better to have the penalty out there before the season begins so that players know the consequences before they even attempt to do it.
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My thoughts are this rule is intended to allow players breaks to use the bathroom or whatever but the reality is that now every game will be extended 30 minutes for pause manips. Not gonna lie, I don't see this helping too much in any way.
If a player needs a legit break, they should be allowed and another player should be penalized if they unpause but chat shouldn't be allowed during pause related to game play
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Just change the rule, and say that players can't talk about the game they are playing during a pause.
I don't see what's so wrong about changing the rulebook in the middle of the event. :icon_neutral:
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I see my fans have mentioned me a few times so ill add my thoughts
I am NOT in favor of "pause TO manip". The admins are correct that this is very rare and i dont remember anyone pausing to manip in my games
But when someone else pauses - sometimes for up to ten minutes, and im sitting there at my screen just waiting for that person, for whatever reason, i should be allowed to talk about what I want.
If I want to talk about the game, maybe I will. Or maybe ill use that time to go piss. Either way, the players should be free to choose. If you dont want to respond, thats your choice. But its unfair to force players in a middle of an intense game to suddenly stop and wait silently just because ONE player had too much mystery meat the night before
This is FFA and its a video game, I dont want too much admin control. The current rule is not a change from before, its a clarification. Manip during pause should be allowed. PAUSE TO MANIP should be controlled. If someone continues to abuse the system, the admins have a right to penalize them
So basically, the rule is fine as it is. They just clarified it for us.
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Whats unfair about not trying to manip behind the back of someone who just paused to go pee ?
Manip during pause should be allowed if the player takes more than 5min to come back, pause to manip should just not exist and be sanctioned
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What is this decision? Were you guys smocking crack? *rollseyes*
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Nice discussion so far. Here's the way I see it.
- Some people seem to believe pausing to manip is some kind of overpowered strategy and some huge advantage for certain players. I really doubt this is the case. If this thread is any indication, then the guy who pauses to manip will be immediately 3v1d right after. I think it is another tool to use, but one that can't be used effectively very often and requires some finesse in the right situation.
- The abuse clause of the rule still applies. If someone pauses to sit there for 3 minutes or more just spamming chat and testing everyone patience, then I think you would be hard-pressed to find an admin that doesn't think that is abusing the system.
Here's a couple scenarios and how I personally would apply the ruling:
1) Bob gets attacked by Jack. Bob pauses for 1 minute to rationalize to Jack why he should instead attack Tony. Verdict: this is okay.
2) Bob gets attacked by Jack. Bob pauses to flame Jack for attacking him. Jack flames him back and other players ask him to unpause. Bob unpauses. Verdict: this is okay, but it will surely hurt Bob's reputation for poor sportsmanship and probably work against him in the end.
3) Bob gets attacked by Jack. Bob pauses to say why he shouldn't be attacked. Everyone tells him to unpause. Bob doesn't unpause for 5 minutes despite not having a valid reason to do so. Verdict: this is abuse. Bob will probably get a warning on the first incident and penalty points if he repeats it.
4) Bob pauses the game during fights multiple times. Verdict: this is abuse. Bob probably gets either a warning or penalty points depending on how many times he did it and the impact it had on the game.
Hope that gives you a sense of the intention of the rules around pausing. But actually there's a better unwritten rule that will always keep you out of trouble: don't be an asshole.
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I like how terrible players are not considering scenario when 2 ppl team him and pause to coordinate.
Never happened to them, why would they think about it.
Ena paused to manip vs Nick and they continued to 3v1 him although they stopped for some time before.
But thats not abuse since no one asked to unpause.
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Nice discussion so far. Here's the way I see it.
- Some people seem to believe pausing to manip is some kind of overpowered strategy and some huge advantage for certain players. I really doubt this is the case. If this thread is any indication, then the guy who pauses to manip will be immediately 3v1d right after. I think it is another tool to use, but one that can't be used effectively very often and requires some finesse in the right situation.
- The abuse clause of the rule still applies. If someone pauses to sit there for 3 minutes or more just spamming chat and testing everyone patience, then I think you would be hard-pressed to find an admin that doesn't think that is abusing the system.
Here's a couple scenarios and how I personally would apply the ruling:
1) Bob gets attacked by Jack. Bob pauses for 1 minute to rationalize to Jack why he should instead attack Tony. Verdict: this is okay.
2) Bob gets attacked by Jack. Bob pauses to flame Jack for attacking him. Jack flames him back and other players ask him to unpause. Bob unpauses. Verdict: this is okay, but it will surely hurt Bob's reputation for poor sportsmanship and probably work against him in the end.
3) Bob gets attacked by Jack. Bob pauses to say why he shouldn't be attacked. Everyone tells him to unpause. Bob doesn't unpause for 5 minutes despite not having a valid reason to do so. Verdict: this is abuse. Bob will probably get a warning on the first incident and penalty points if he repeats it.
4) Bob pauses the game during fights multiple times. Verdict: this is abuse. Bob probably gets either a warning or penalty points depending on how many times he did it and the impact it had on the game.
Hope that gives you a sense of the intention of the rules around pausing. But actually there's a better unwritten rule that will always keep you out of trouble: don't be an asshole.
I don't think number one is okay at all. It's an RTS game. You should chat/manip while playing the game. Also, remember that there are 2 other players in the game whose gameflow might be disrupted. It's really frustrating to be in a micro intensive fight and then have somebody pause the game. Especially if they don't even announce the pause (like cumulo does every time).
Anyway, I actually agree with Eshan. There probably shouldn't be a specific rule of this, since it would be too rigid, but my problem with this thread is that it sounds like you are implicitly condoning pause manip whereas before we all thought it was banned.
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We are implicitly condoning pause manip.
It used to be in a grey area where some admin would allow it, other wouldn't, and the most that you would get out of it is a warning.
Now it's officially out of the grey area and into the white one. If we see that it causes a problem we will send it to the black area.
But no more grey area, where admin had all the powers of saying "this time it's ok"
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Well, I think I can make you send it to the black area in one game.
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We are implicitly condoning pause manip.
Lol it seems the admin team bullied Renaud into submission.
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wow lol, this topic has blown out of proportion :icon_surprised:
Something tells me @FML|WorpeX will close this topic soon :icon_smile:
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wow lol, this topic has blown out of proportion :icon_surprised:
Something tells me @FML|WorpeX will close this topic soon :icon_smile:
naaahhh its all good discussion. I only close threads when it comes flaming.
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ALL ATTACK NICK HE IS SUPERIOR
lol
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i say we test this rule in a 6way with: ena sweet cumulo eshan qwest
and one voluntarely sacrifice
dv you wanna be that poor soul?
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Oh we should make a new mode!
Every 10 minute, a player is picked randomly.
For the next 10 minute, that player is the only one allowed to chat.
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DV, nick constantly killed my expos before we even saw each other. He also kept hitting me, he got the 3v1 he deserved. I even offered my peace but he refused
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The scenarios Red described seem bad to me, that doesnt usually happen in FFA games. If its minor i guess its okay, but there should be a difference between pause TO manip and manipping while someone else pauses.
Theres nothing wrong with the second case. If someone goes away, you can talk or manip, and when that player gets back he can read the log before unpausing and respond. As long as his total time is under 10 mins pause. No one should be rewarded for pausing and wasting 3+ other players time
Personally i take my shits before a game so i have no sympathy for long pauses, unless theres an emergency
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Eshan, are u watching Alien Covenant when it comes out ? :icon_smile:
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The scenarios Red described seem bad to me, that doesnt usually happen in FFA games. If its minor i guess its okay, but there should be a difference between pause TO manip and manipping while someone else pauses.
Theres nothing wrong with the second case. If someone goes away, you can talk or manip, and when that player gets back he can read the log before unpausing and respond. As long as his total time is under 10 mins pause. No one should be rewarded for pausing and wasting 3+ other players time
Personally i take my shits before a game so i have no sympathy for long pauses, unless theres an emergency
Two words: coffee dump. Sneaks up on ya dude
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@ this thread
Lol. What the hell? You guys are absolutely insane. I think you've lost it.
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@Dovekie, you should play S25 and show us all the light :icon_razz: