FFA Masters League
Administration => Archive => FML-Leaguebot : private bot => Topic started by: Tleilaxu on December 03, 2014, 08:16:37 pm
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INS banned me and brain from the bot due events in a game making him mad. This is clearly abuse of the bot rights.
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Ye worst fucking childish authority-abuse in a long time.
get the fucker banned..
thx!
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smile bro what are you doin?
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what's his account name?
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I-never-smile
He did unban us, but it was still kinda annoying.
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I just removed him. Clearly an abuse of power.
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Oh, they made a thread about this? The crying continues.
They got banned for about a grand total of 3 minutes, and it was because they were spamming a bunch of bullshit in chat. At first, it was kicking. If kicking someone multiple times doesn't work, I press the ban button. Your bot has a chatlog, right? Go read it. Go read the cbox discussion log too, while you're at it. And go talk to Maga about it, too, because he was fuming mad about how much of an unwarranted asshole Tleilaxu was being in our first game. And ask SoSo about it, too.
Remove me if you want, I don't even give a shit anymore. I can't get games on ladder at all because nobody can, the vast majority of playffa games are fucking horrible for all kinds of reasons, and now even inhouse games are low-quality because we let these kids join our games, act like complete jackasses in chat in and outside the games, and then they have no consequences. Some people need to get kicked from games and put into time out. Some people need to get banned every once in a while. Some people probably need to get permabanned because they just suck at life. Deal with it.
FYI, the gn was literally "toolwillgetbanned", and then when they joined they started being tools, so they got banned. So it's not like there wasn't any kind of warning.
I don't take shit from anyone. I never did before, and I'm not about to start now. If you guys want to keep scumbags in because you want every player you can get--well you're going to lose out on a bunch of good players by keeping scumbags and not setting boundaries. You don't want me hosting because I actually stood my ground? Then you're spineless.
There's already a known preteamer and known maphacker in FML anyways. Great job keeping it clean, dickheads! Peace!
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I feel like this thread needs context information for those who doesn't have the full picture of what actually happened. I will upload the replay on ffareplays if anyone wants to review it. I definitely recommend it for those who want to form their own "objective" perspective on it - my take is clearly not objective although i try to be fair. I also think it is a good replay to discuss the way ffa is played.
This is my take on it in a short version:
First of all we played an in house ffa game yesterday where I observed the game along with letshave, ponty and alien. The game featured 4 players: Maga, Tleilaxu, i-never-smile and Prometheus.
Maga and Prometheus started out strongest. Maga first started to attack Tleilaxu . However, like many games before, Tleilaxu started "crying" for help to other players before he was actually dead (meaning a close to non-recoverable position) - writing stuff like "HEEEEELP maga killed me" continiously. Maga got infuriated by this and trash talk began between them (Tleilaxu has done this strategy in the past several times before to other players including maga).
Meanwhile, I-never-smile decided to quit the game early before he was actually dead. He stated before quitting, as well as after the game in chatbox, that: "he could no concentrate because of Tleilaxu's whining, and that this he ended up feeding his 60 pop army to Prometheus".
After I-never-smile's exit a really "ugly" 3-way began. Prometheus decided to help Tleilaxu out and coordinated with him. Maga asked about 10 minutes for peace between himself and Prometheus so "that they could get rid of Tleilaxu". However, Prometheus declined to do so several times. Prometheus continued to attack maga in like an hour while Tleilaxu stayed back and mined like 17k sitting in base and sometimes killing a few buildings of maga. From my point of view as an observer it did not look like Prometheus might not playing for the win (perhaps because of the rage chat between), or perhaps more likely was not willing to compromise with Maga because they were raging towards one another.
In the end Maga was in a last fight with Prometheus where Tleilaxu came and finished him after he was sufficiently weakened by the fight.
Prometheus died 1 minute after with no gold or means to defend himself on 60 pop. He was weakened by the long 1on1 with maga.
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What I have learned from this experience is that the players had different perspectives on the game and how an in house game should be played.
On one side we have maga and i-never-smile who clearly did not approve of this in-game chat.
On the other side we have Tleilaxu and Prometheus who stood front against maga and i-never-smile for using admin rights to ban them.
So far we have tolerated all sorts of chat when playing in house games, but I feel like it is not all players who approve of this playstyle. In FML games it is generally tolerated that chat and manipulation is used by players to gain an advantage. However, I feel like it is up to the players who play in house games to decide how they want to play it. Should we play with non-chat games or should it be allowed? where to set the bar?
I don't approve of i-never-smile's decision to ban both Tleilaxu and Prometheus temporarily. I think he was clearly stressed and angry. On the other hand, I can't help but think that this experience resembles a bigger issue we have had many times before: Namely that we have different expectations of proper ffa games, chat and behaviour in games.
Seksi and I (along with many other players) have had the same issues playing when playing with players like Tleilaxu, but Tleilaxu is certainly not the only one who plays in this way!
For some of us players it makes the games horrible to play because when you win your first 1on1 or even is about to tome one player, the crying for help and teaming already commences. Essentially you get no advantage from playing the best.
I prefer non-chat games myself because it creates less frustrating, manipulative games. Especially in 3-ways. Moreover, I believe that if no chat is allowed players will eventually learn to scout and hit the strongest. However, i also think that it should be up to the players to decide what they tolerate in in house games - so far we play like FML games. This provides the best practice and is generally the most accepted I feel.
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i wont write as much as soso but since iam neutral and i was obs i will say this:
Prometeus would deserve getting kicked for the way he played against maga the game before inhouse games are supposed to be fun your behaviour was just retarded.
Tleilaxu plays ugli all know that so if it bothers you squelch him like i do and dont ban him for it.
What i didnt like was that you kicked/banned throne he just joined the game you kicked him and said if he cant read the gamename you dont want tools.
Its not only Tleilaxu that makes the game horrible its the players listening to his shit.
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with retard i mean prometeus not you smile =)
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thats ffa, noobs wins 50% games here, same as skilled players haha
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Well from that ztsoso wrote i would not say that its the right decision to BAN players from the bot because they played in a non-standard / unfair way. Manipulating(whininhg in this case) in FFA is common and so is coordinated teaming against someone who appears to be "strongest". (we had that a lot of times in the last 9 season of FML)
We gave you admin rights on our bot to host games and not ban players from it..leave that part to us.
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Jesus, I don't know what you guys are complaining about. Playing with Maga is like having a big bully with better micro who has chosen you as his rape victim. I can look forward to getting creepjacked and tomed all game when I play vs Maga, so please tell me what other alternatives do I have than asking for help?
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I will not explain the game situation as what Soso said is more or less the full picture. I will just add up a few things.
First, this was clearly a fun inhouse game with no stakes involved. Tleilaxu has spawned (as often as it happens) close so it naturally becomes my opponent. His behaviour though further fuels my motivation to go for him as he is highly annoying with his constant chat and whining. I finish with my creeps, establish 3 expands and attack him. And voila, the first hit from my deathknight on his fiend and already "HEEEEELP, me dead" bullshit starts flying like a shit that just hit the fan. Ins leaves prematurely so this leads to a 3 way in which Tleil just whines non stop and eventually Prometheus attacks me. I back off from Tleil (who was at that point almost dead but not when he first started whining) and fight Prometheus until the end.
Here is something I hate in players like Tleil and Prometheus. The first just whines and hoardes, waits and sits on his ass through the entire game while his retarded friend spends his entire gold with the sole purpose to kill me. What is the point? Is it fun to play such a game? Or to receive such a win? And to top of that, Tleil mentions how he had respect for me but not anymore because I flame him a lot. I can not care less for such respect when you clearly don't respect a good game. Manipulation is fine. I manip, all top players manip. But not whine when even a real fight has not started. This is plain annoying and kills the entertainment of a good level ffa. Especially when there is nothing at stake. Is it so difficult to focus on your macro/micro first and only if you are clearly losing already to ask for help or something?
Of course, I can't understand Prometheus either for just plain suiciding after hearing that annoying cry again and again. But whatever, he has obvious issues.
I stand by all the words I said ingame and after the game and I won't apologise. You both are disgusting players and absolutely no fun to play with. To refer to your words in the previous post, yes, you can do something and if you can't understand that your constant whine is the cause for this "bullying" then there is no chance for you. I hope we meet in round 3 so that I secure for you the 5 points and not have you in the season. And if you complain to admins, I can say in addition that this is in my interest based on our games since you just constantly have me as a principal target. So yeah, pray at Renaud's random program to not draw you with me.
Fin.
P.S. I dont support the ban afterwards from INS as after all we are a small community and they don't mh or something.
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If you're a weaker player in a group, you have to adjust. Expect to get rushed early and attempt to be tomed. In response, get scouting out faster. Keep tabs on aggressive players. Check their base every 30 seconds with shade/sentry/whatever. The instant you see production buildings light up, assume they're coming for you. Jump to 100 food to be absolutely safe. It is very unlikely they'll break 80 food, so if you can hit 100 in time, you should be able to defend, get some hero levels, and then go back down to 80.
It comes back down to scouting - knowing what is going to happen in advance will help you prepare. Still losE? then look at what you need to improve on. Is it a micro standpoint? Is it a creeping efficiency standpoint? What are you doing that the others are doing better?
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What do we learn from this? You bet on the wrong horse. Lightweight for admin Season 20! It's time and we all know it. I even declinded Ugris offer to become his Head-Admin to have time for this Job.
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Alright, a few separate issues going on here, so I'm going to try to address.
First. Players should not be banning other players from the bot, for any period of time. If you have an issue talk to an admin. We give players admin status because we trust them to not abuse it, and we want you to have access to it.
Second. As previously stated, if you have issues with certain players bring it up with the admins and we'll figure out a solution to it. We want the league and the atmosphere to be enjoyable to everyone.
Lastly, playstyle. Those that have played with me in the past few years know that I hate players being whiny. Nothing drives me nuts more than people going so incredibly over the top in a video game. That being said, we can't dictate how people play. Teach players through actions that a tactic won't work. If a player constantly cries, finish him. That's one of Renaud's favorite strategies since it means the player is weak and easy to tome. If it really gets that bad and all the games become unenjoyable then talk to an admin about it. We aren't going to dictate playstyle for FML games, however the inhouse games are meant to be fun and they aren't for points or anything.
@Tleilaxu That's completely the wrong attitude to take. If Maga is better than you then it gives you an incentive to get better to play up to his level, not to just be a nuisance all game. Maga is one of the most friendly players you'll meet, instead of antagonizing him ask him for help. The community is happy to provide feedback on where you can improve, and players grow tremendously if they put the work in here. No player has consistently been good by just crying in games. It can work for a few games short term, but players figure it out quickly. Everyone who's been around a few seasons knows players who have tried this before and how quickly it turns. There's no denying manip is a power tool in FFA, however those that use it the best also have tons of other skills behind it. Maga and Seksi are the two prime examples of players who are incredibly effective using manip, but they're both great players without it and it's just another element to their game, not the main element.
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I really cant understand why a single game generated so much drama, it just looks like one if this ffa bot games to me... Yes, with retardness going around, but as always.
My apologies to all the observers who watched this exceptionally bad game, except for shave. I didnt expect it to go so awfull. Im gonna give you my insight why I did such a decision and failed so hard. I know those arent objectives at all, but they are my opinions.
1. Maga is the best. Isnt this just a single reason to team him? I tried to rush him with tanks but it didnt work.
2. I hate 3 ways. Soso knows this very well. I just tend to leave when one of those starts, I dont like to play 2 hours more for a game because of stupid crap and manip.
3. It was late and I wanted to finish the game a bit faster than it should last. Sadly Tleilaxu didnt move a finger to make anything.
4. I dont like players who offer a peace while killing stuff.
To summarize: after INS left I went 100 and tried to kill Maga "fast". I didnt fall for Tleilaxu's manip cry at all. As you can see I had other main reasons. It didnt work and I just fucked up. It was a horribe and frustrating game for me too.
But it only was a fucking game. You guys lost it. I have nothing against you Maga. Despite all the flame and insults from yesterday, I respect you as one of the best players out there, if not the best. And yes, Im far WORSE than you. Im a just a plain noob compared to your skills.
And Soso is very right, there should be ffa games without chat. This way its much more relaxing and you have to scout better.
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This is ffa, play how you want. Report to admins if someone abuses power.
If you do not like someones playstyle, rush them out or just don't play with them.
FML will never tell people how to play a game. If player wish to play with no chat or game restrictions, it is up to the players of that game.
I am locking this thread.