FFA Masters League
General => Suggestions => Topic started by: FML|WorpeX on December 09, 2013, 11:21:32 am
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So S17 is just about ready to finish and I think it has been a fun season and very successful. We used a brand new format which seemed to be well received and it was fun. However, that's a fairly bias opinion from someone who is running the league. haha
I want to hear the opinions from everyone who participated in the league or just followed it. Please stick to the following format:
What you liked the most about this season:
What you liked the least about this season:
Changes you want to see for S18:
Additional comments:
Thanks!!
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What you liked the league about this season:
sorry i dont get that one.. forgot a word or my bad english? :(
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What you liked the league about this season:
sorry i dont get that one.. forgot a word or my bad english? :(
I think he meant what you liked the least about the season
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I would say the earlier stages of the season were a disaster with all the scheduling conflicts/amount of people we had to sub/ and overall poor sportsmanship by some of the players. Even later on we had a lot of players just give up without a warning (darkness/y.z) and all this does is make more work for the admins and it is quite frustrating.
I understand that a lot people get very emotional about winning/losing but we need to be nicer towards each other. Even ignoring the lightweight incident, in the earlier stages of the game a lot of veteran players, myself included at one point, (towards wan) were very hostile towards new player because of the way they played.
We should be encouraging more players into the league and not lambaste their playstyle just because it is different and not what we veterans are accustomed to.
I also dislike in general the amount of accusations that are thrown around the newer players, specifically the solo pros who have very good game sense when it comes to creeping/knowledge of players behavior. I won't single anyone out, but some are very vocal about accusing others of cheating and maphacking, when they have absolutely no proof whatsoever.
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What you liked the most about this season:
Semi was awesome (persuade's)
Seeing Yaws in FML
Shoutcasts were funny and interesting (Wpx/Mage, Mage/Wreck...)
Gj from admins too
What you liked the least about this season:
Many long boring mass chat games. reminded me of S11. There were very few exciting games. I would recall this semi and Audigy wins vs Yaws as great and tooo many long/passive games (Meeds winning on death bayou doing nothing, maga vs renaud 6 hours...).
Taking everyone like in S11 is not a good idea.
Some suicide too.. Wreck/Renaud, Jeys on Pers, LW on Seksi... well, we have seen most exciting seasons.
Also Elimination mode was just used to take out inactive players most of the time. And I didnt really liked the rule change mid season to try to keep Wan and Target on board while they should have been eliminated. Was weird.
Changes you want to see for S18:
I dont feel elimination mode was really good. Maybe less players next season but motivated ones who are active and dont have an history of no showing so we really have the elite of FFA fighting for the title.
Additional comments:
After congratulating him for his play, I will congratulate Persuade for his admin job. He proved to Worpex I was really not needed to manage the league :D
Scheduling went smoothly, except when players were totally inactive (what can you do then...)
So stop with guys like yz, rsm, wan, target, darkness... they are awesome players but now they are retired. They might show up for a couple of games but they wont play an entire season.
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What you liked the league about this season:
sorry i dont get that one.. forgot a word or my bad english? :(
I think he meant what you liked the least about the season
I also did not get that sentence but i think you are right ;) Also i corrected some words in the 1st post.
Ill sum up my thought later today.
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What you liked the most about this season:
Lot of players, Some really good solo ones, such as Wan, Yaws, etc
What you liked the least about this season:
Scheduling, too much people are too lazy giving precise scheduling, with both time zones (cet/est), maybe you should present an open source or a free website to facilitate the scheduling.
Look at all my game, my scheduling was always precise, with much details, 1 line per day, and both time zone.
I don't know, maybe people not following this thread : http://ffamasters.net/index.php?topic=22.0
should get a punishment or something. As explained in this thread, I've seen more "bap posts" than "good posts"
Changes you want to see for S18:
Try to not put American with Russian in the same match, only if needed (like semi finals). It is horrible scheduling between Russian and American
Additional comments:
I am really happy I came up to the semi final this season ! I really didn't think I will go that far. Some big names know me pretty well (like Maga). When I joined FML 1 year ago I was considering these guys as stars, they feel more like friends today. Thanks for building this community !
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What you liked the most about this season:
It was close and a lot of players had a shot for semi/finals, thanks to the system as well. Makes for more excitement pre-game. Also, some new names as mentioned.
What you liked the least about this season:
A lot of people dropped because of inactivity. I agree that there should be a way to punish people for not scheduling and overall have a long history of delayed scheduling/not showing at all. I prefer players who may be less skilled but play regularly rather than people who show for two games and then miss everything else.
Changes you want to see for S18:
I like how every season has some new format so I am in for some changes.
Additional comments:
Thanks for the nice words Meeds, I agree and it is also a pleasure to be part of the community :)
Also, about the suicides - it is unavoidable. There are always going to be conflicts and grudges. It is part of FFA.
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What I liked:
FFA is alive thanks to FML and Ugri's ladder. Thanks to all of you for continuing to keep it alive, and become even bigger than before. Glad to see more players join.
Also, elves are winning, thank god. I'm still afraid one of the randoms in the finals will go the typical am mk pal crap.
What I didn't like:
Same as every other season. I've said it many times, and will say it again, FFA should be played for the win, not for points. There should be no points given except for winning. Maybe for top score you can give 1 point. 10/10/5 system is really detrimental to idea of ffa where it's all about last man standing. Everyone should be playing for the win, not points. Mentality of "yeah it's ok I'll suicide this guy, and get at least 10 points, or if I'm lucky still pull off a win" should be gone. It's really against the spirit. But just IMO, I'm sure most people would disagree.
Outside of elves, everyone continues to ignore the problem of cheese. It's boring as hell to watch and absolutely disgusting how people go for personal problems vs each other instead of teaming the cheesers first. Am / mk / pal or bm / sh/ tc in game ===> team them out. Shit's way too stupidly op and makes games insanely boring.
Season 18:
No real suggestions, I think the format is good.
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Outside of elves, everyone continues to ignore the problem of cheese. It's boring as hell to watch and absolutely disgusting how people go for personal problems vs each other instead of teaming the cheesers first. Am / mk / pal or bm / sh/ tc in game ===> team them out. Shit's way too stupidly op and makes games insanely boring.
You still fail to comprehend the fact that people care about winning more than anything. Mog is probably the only player that constantly picks a non cheese starting hero, but because people want to win, they will pick a hero composition that gives them the highest chance.
Sure a beastmaster here or a pitlord there might work, but generally vs the best players, you need to use the best heroes.
I'm all for using my fun compositions in a friendly game, or even an early round in the season, but when winning is the most important part of a game, such as the semis/finals, going a non standard composition will cost you the game.
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Maga picked a panda in one of his game!!!
Turned out it was a terrible choice, but he still did it! :D
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We can create a mode where you can chose 2/3 heroes... the 3rd is random from any race! :)
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Outside of elves, everyone continues to ignore the problem of cheese. It's boring as hell to watch and absolutely disgusting how people go for personal problems vs each other instead of teaming the cheesers first. Am / mk / pal or bm / sh/ tc in game ===> team them out. Shit's way too stupidly op and makes games insanely boring.
You still fail to comprehend the fact that people care about winning more than anything. Mog is probably the only player that constantly picks a non cheese starting hero, but because people want to win, they will pick a hero composition that gives them the highest chance.
Sure a beastmaster here or a pitlord there might work, but generally vs the best players, you need to use the best heroes.
I'm all for using my fun compositions in a friendly game, or even an early round in the season, but when winning is the most important part of a game, such as the semis/finals, going a non standard composition will cost you the game.
I get that, people do what they wanna do. I'm just saying when this happens, others have to team them, instead of focusing on personal squabbles. And if there are 4 cheesers in game, they can fight each other fair, it's all good.
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Ok make a new topic about cheese please, we're getting off topic. Moar feedback please!!! Everything we've heard so far is great and we're discussing it all internally. Make your voice heard!!! :D
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Make a rule that winning in more than 70 mn gets you -5pts
We can code maps to show when a player is 50 food too (to avoid too much hoarding, to avoid mass long passive sitting games...)
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I would be against the 50 food flag, since it makes scouting less important
Removing points after a certain time would be ok for me (and I'm the one usually stuck in these longs game!) although I would probably say 2h, or a different time based on the map
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I completely disagree with that. haha People play FFA in their own way, I don't see a reason to penalize a strategy. Just 8x through the slow bits of a replay.
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even x8, it takes 45 minutes to watch maga vs renaud ... :D
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also minigame : if you use the word "help", you get -1 pt each time you say it
EDIT : there is a good idea thjough behind ebo's usual demantia.
Try to find a system where there are no points, or at least only winner get some points
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i liked lw's ban ;-)
i would like to play in s18(not 100%sure) but i do not apologize ^_^
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EDIT : there is a good idea thjough behind ebo's usual demantia.
Try to find a system where there are no points, or at least only winner get some points
Aww thanks
I know it`s hell to figure out rankings without points, not sure what can be done about it. But I really hate when people don't play for the win, I seriously start having rage issues because of this.
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What you liked the most about this season:
New peoples
New maps
What you liked the least about this season:
Multi-round elimination format / Seeded matches each round - this made it feel like some sort of zombie combination of KOFFA and a bnet tourney, instead of a league. Leagues have a static number, you play everyone, you move on to finals. This felt like a 4 month tournament, which is what KOFFA is supposed to be I think?
Lack of qualifiers - So many uncommitted people playing in the first few rounds. 15/20 slots could probably be filled with good/great players who are committed to the game. Id rather have a good committed player like Jeys than a great, uncommited player like Duck. Playing with a sub sucks big time.
Changes you want to see for S18 / Additional comments:
A few seasons ago we did round robin until the last round which was seeded. I think that was a good format. (Like the NFL where you make each round matter.)
No stupid rules please (punishing players who 'play slow', adding a crypt lord only round, etc. Keep fun games to non-competitive play (ie: persuades fun games have been good so far)
Add "post your 2 week schedule, day by day breakdown by end of Monday or lose 5 points" rule and get people to stop being imbeciles about posting schedules.
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Well to be fair the first 2 rounds were pretty much the qualifiers
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Multi-round elimination format / Seeded matches each round - this made it feel like some sort of zombie combination of KOFFA and a bnet tourney, instead of a league. Leagues have a static number, you play everyone, you move on to finals. This felt like a 4 month tournament, which is what KOFFA is supposed to be I think?
I really liked this format as well! It did feel like a long tournament but at the same time, still felt like a league. With that said, I don't feel like its something that should be done twice in a row. I definitely think this format will be used again, but I think its unlikely to be done in S18.
A few seasons ago we did round robin until the last round which was seeded. I think that was a good format. (Like the NFL where you make each round matter.)
What season was this? I can't remember...
No stupid rules please (punishing players who 'play slow', adding a crypt lord only round, etc. Keep fun games to non-competitive play (ie: persuades fun games have been good so far)
Unless they're side tournaments, like KoFFA, stupid rules wont get added into official FML seasons while i'm around.
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Well round robin is everyone meets everyone right? That would be the original style we used
But I think he was talking about the swiss style?
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What season was this? I can't remember...
3 seasons ago I want to say. The idea was to maintain the round robin idea of the first 3-5 rounds, while ensuring everyone was playing for something in the last one. My main problem with this season was losing early and winning later was a lot easier than winning early and then winning later. (That being said you guys did a great job with this season, especially considering the number of issues, crazy players, cheaters, and general nuts who play this gametype.)
Well to be fair the first 2 rounds were pretty much the qualifiers
Spare the majority of us playing through that then plox. Also if you put a bunch of lousy players in one match together they wont have the standing to rage against someone for playing "wrong" (to Pers' earlier point about players being mean to other players about playstyles. Let the clueless kill eachother off!)
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I'm at work so I will add more later, but what I liked most was the format of the season. Made it so every round was important and competitive, and also allowed for a lot of new people to play in the season. I think if you combined the theory of this format with a sort of qaulifiar round, it would help to weed out people who aren't committed or active. For example, there were like 6-7 people accepted this season who never played a single game. If you can mesh the two formats into a cohesive idea, I think it would cut down on the amount of subs needed for games. Which is what I disliked the most--the amount of subs which led to poor games (And poor situations such as with jey).
Will add more later.
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+ i'de like admins to approve subs, so that they can take someone with approximately same level as the person being replaced, coz players as it revealed are afraid sometimes and choose noobs.
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What you liked the most about this season:
couple of new committed new(er) players ( Meeds, Jey, Dovekie, Ludix, Toyota)
couple of good soloplayers ( yaws, kpect)
good "problem-management" by admins
surprising finalists ( mog, j33)
searchers streaming ( i usually prefer watching replays or observe, because wtv/ggtv etc always disappointed me, but twitch looks decent, although i only kept watching the semi for about 30% of the game )
What you liked the least about this season:
lack of good games : not enough development/action in longer games, too many easy wins without the winner playing a way, where an easy would been justified ( executing a good strategy or a plan well can result in easy wins, which is ok ).
lwīs/humiīs behaviour etc.
couple of players stopping to play midway the season( elessar, darkness, rsm, yz).
Changes you want to see for S18:
new maps are good and nice, but i did not like how the games went on deathīs bajyou e.g.. I dunno, if it was a matter of not testing it enough or making it kown to players. Maybe it was just a coincidence or inhomogeneity of players.
maybe customizing already existing maps is worth a shot ( like fixing shops on silverpine, deathrose removing things like spellshield, staff of silence, crown of kings, infernal ) or fixing the ramp on marketsquare ( removing infernal, claws +15, dagger). The changes on emerald shores worked out quite well and a map like this ( or one more in this season iīd appreciate ).
donīt let everyone in again. Probably give some players a bye ( autoqualify) ( semi/finalists) + invite players, who proved to be good competetion without causing unacceptable trouble. ( shitty scheduling, missing games often w/o explanation, cheating etc)
Then do a qualifier for the remaining spots.
Put on some showmatches ( strong players of each race, only soloplayers, only orcs, only banned people, usa vs europe just some suggestions )
Donīt give players, who caused trouble again and again, another chance ( they maybe can still play everything except league) .
probably give a 4th place 6 instead of 5 pts ( sometimes ur screwed by spawn and ppl wonīt care about prolonging a 4way and with just 5 pts in a game or 2 ur often screwed).
give additional pts for wins in consecutive games ( extra motivation for the player, attention from other players not to let a player get too much ahead in standings ).
Additional comments:
donīt forget to post in the wc3/ffa-history thread ^^.
wreck did actually miss a game ( season 11, game 4, i think) .
when a game seems to stuck ( stalement etc. ) with the power of bot, an admin ( if avaiable and obsing) could encourage the players to be more active via reffing-chat.
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Definitely penalize people for not scheduling quicker. Better have fewer active players than lots of flaky ones.
The new map was interesting but portals should be gone... those things are absolutely broken.
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Definitely penalize people for not scheduling quicker. Better have fewer active players than lots of flaky ones.
The new map was interesting but portals should be gone... those things are absolutely broken.
I think ditching the top to bottom once might be worth it, but I liked the ones at the expos. As Pers pointed out they arent hard to use. And if you dont know how to use em take 5 minutes to practice them :)
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What you liked the most about this season:
inactive for a long time, I remember only some of the first seasons. nonetheless:
* the chance for every player to compete, better than some qualis I remember where lots of good players were left out
* the admin team doing a very good job and with the right principles
* lots of strong players and a variety of playstyles
* elves succeeding
What you liked the least about this season:
* as ever, long and boring chatcraft
* players not scheduling, abandoning without notice - lack of respect in general. subs, conficts, it all fits here
Changes you want to see for S18:
* dedicated players and a nicer atmosphere, it's just a small community playing their favourite vintage game
* more discussion on the games. no-one cares about your personal grudge or uber skills
* use of good new maps after they've been thoroughly tested
Additional comments:
have a nice x-mas holiday xD
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Easy win matches, inactive players and similar things cannot be smth that admins can change - these are the things that will always be present.
I liked the format for this season, actually everything was pretty good, but u know, im a new guy so i dont know how did u do this earlier.
What i dont like is 2 week scheduling... too long if u ask me...
and i dont like the sub system - subs should be decided by the other players who play the game
changes? not much, u r doing a good job