Feedback for Map Contest Maps

[Mr.Henci]

for greenville -

the top left and top right spawns have really big ledges behind their base that the bottom  ones dont have; build-able ledges are pretty abuseable in ffa and there might be problems with ledges being so close to base like that.

Well, it never really come to my mind, but when you say it like that, it is clear mistake by me. I hope this will fix it. 

i think i'd prefer to add 1 more tiny green camp near the bases

As you wish my friend. 

Here is my http://www.epicwar.com/maps/267619/ updated version of Greenville Woods v1.1, I am really thankful for feedback which you guys gave me and as before, any feedback on the new creeps is appreciated.

[FML|WorpeX]

for greenville -

the top left and top right spawns have really big ledges behind their base that the bottom  ones dont have; build-able ledges are pretty abuseable in ffa and there might be problems with ledges being so close to base like that.

Well, it never really come to my mind, but when you say it like that, it is clear mistake by me. I hope this will fix it. 

i think i'd prefer to add 1 more tiny green camp near the bases

As you wish my friend. 

Here is my http://www.epicwar.com/maps/267619/ updated version of Greenville Woods v1.1, I am really thankful for feedback which you guys gave me and as before, any feedback on the new creeps is appreciated.

Some additional Feedback on Greenville that i've noticed:

1. Sending a peon to the Taven will cause him to aggro some Creeps along the way. This is spawn dependent, some spawns will aggro different creeps.

2. Ramps need a lot of work. They are basically straight default ramps with no smoothing done to them. This makes vision weird when approaching a ramp and going up it. Take a look at Blizzard ramps - they use the raise/lower tool to make them very smooth transitions.

3. To add on to #2, the area around the spawns is very beautifully done but for some reason the middle of the map is flat and didn't receive the same treatment. Its noticeable.

[Mr.LighT]

3. To add on to #2, the area around the spawns is very beautifully done but for some reason the middle of the map is flat and didn't receive the same treatment. Its noticeable.

Is not there a ruined city(or fortress) in the center? City should be as flat, or live in it is not convenient. I don´t understand why the fortress is in the valley, but it explains why it was destroyed.

[Mr.Henci]

1. Sending a peon to the Taven will cause him to aggro some Creeps along the way. This is spawn dependent, some spawns will aggro different creeps.

 I heard about this before, I am not a big player myself, but is it really such an important matter? Because little managment can get worker to tavern without problems (I know that in stressful macro situation it can be problem) Do you believe there is any solution, because I find it really hard to somehow implement this feature to this layout.

2. Ramps need a lot of work. They are basically straight default ramps with no smoothing done to them. This makes vision weird when approaching a ramp and going up it. Take a look at Blizzard ramps - they use the raise/lower tool to make them very smooth transitions.

 Well, I will do what I can, but when we are talking about blizzard ramps, most of the time blizzard melee maps use higher/lower tool rather than clifs/ramps. The problem with this is that while I can make the clif ramp look really smooth, the game will still register the ''blue dots'' and thus prevent vision of unit, who is on the lower level, or when it is in the ''blue dots' area'' unit can't properly see higher level nor lower level. I believe you are aware of this, just wanted to say that the wierd vision problem might be caused by this and even when the ramps will be smooth like baby bottom, the problems might appear.

(click to show/hide)

The pink hero can't see paladin up the hill, even if smoothing was perfect. There will be still line of FoW.

3. To add on to #2, the area around the spawns is very beautifully done but for some reason the middle of the map is flat and didn't receive the same treatment. Its noticeable.

Is not there a ruined city(or fortress) in the center? City should be as flat, or live in it is not convenient. I don´t understand why the fortress is in the valley, but it explains why it was destroyed.

 Yup, I generally left village untouched. I did some higher/lower with trees areas near bandits but I believe that cities/villages shoul be flat. (I am glad at least someone understod my intensions  )

[FML|WorpeX]

You can micro the worker, sure, its just extra micro that you'd have to do solely for that map. It takes you out of your early game rhythm. Unless the worker actually dies along the way, its not a big deal. I tried from the top left spawn and it didn't die. Its more of an annoyance than it is an issue.

Easiest solution is to change the location of the Tavern or offending creep camps.

The weird vision problem I was referring too was in the center of the map where its two ramps in a row. You're right about the blizzard maps, I forgot they do that a lot. But even in maps that they use ramps, like deathrose, they blend the ramps into the map to keep it from being flat.

I guess the village thing makes sense, I didn't notice that when playing!

[Mr.Henci]

You can micro the worker, sure, its just extra micro that you'd have to do solely for that map. It takes you out of your early game rhythm. Unless the worker actually dies along the way, its not a big deal. I tried from the top left spawn and it didn't die. Its more of an annoyance than it is an issue.

Easiest solution is to change the location of the Tavern or offending creep camps.

The weird vision problem I was referring too was in the center of the map where its two ramps in a row. You're right about the blizzard maps, I forgot they do that a lot. But even in maps that they use ramps, like deathrose, they blend the ramps into the map to keep it from being flat.

I guess the village thing makes sense, I didn't notice that when playing!

Allright sir, here is my quick update Greenville Woods v1.2 http://www.epicwar.com/maps/267647/
I hope it fullfiled your demands, have fun! 

[FML|WorpeX]

You can micro the worker, sure, its just extra micro that you'd have to do solely for that map. It takes you out of your early game rhythm. Unless the worker actually dies along the way, its not a big deal. I tried from the top left spawn and it didn't die. Its more of an annoyance than it is an issue.

Easiest solution is to change the location of the Tavern or offending creep camps.

The weird vision problem I was referring too was in the center of the map where its two ramps in a row. You're right about the blizzard maps, I forgot they do that a lot. But even in maps that they use ramps, like deathrose, they blend the ramps into the map to keep it from being flat.

I guess the village thing makes sense, I didn't notice that when playing!

Allright sir, here is my quick update Greenville Woods v1.2 http://www.epicwar.com/maps/267647/
I hope it fullfiled your demands, have fun! 

Great changes!

[SteppinRazor]

Just thought I'd add my two cents.  I think Equilirium (or however its spelled lol) is a really great map.  It's very much like twilight and market both, I could see it creating some epic FML games and its also very good for 8 person games.  I like that each person has a natural but theres also center mines that will cause people to fight early.  Great job by cumulo <3

[FML|WorpeX]

Retvizan being removed from bot. Altai Mountains being added.

[DV-]

@ AltaiMountains:
Great looking map, i loved those ramps but layout is kinda boring as for me, we have a lot of such square symmetric maps. Mid is a bit empty, nothing to fight for except huge red spot. Map dont force players to act after everyone put 2 expos.

[ZsSuperCumulo]

Atlai Mountains

The map is well designed, each player gets two expos and there are enough creeps to get heros lvl 4 3 and 2. This is a great map for people to act instead of hoard; it reminds me a lot of Fountain of Manip, the ramps and the overall layout is very good. Looking forward seeing this map in next season.

[ZsSuperCumulo]

@SteppinRazor thanks man, I'll see if there is any more mistakes to be fixed, but for now it looks rock solid imo.

[ObserveAndLearn]

didn't really enjoy greenville wood for the following reasons

- wood is scarce around the main base which i've never been very fond of.
- creeps were kind of weird to me even though i REALLY ENJOYED  the item drop (no, really, props to the mapmaker)
- middle yellow creeps 12 and 6 oclock attack you randomly and are just placed weirdly.
- may be adding a tavern per main would be best (something like fountain of manipulation) and adding some really cool creeps middle to guard a marketplace (not a fountain to avoid being a "fountain of manipulation" copy). Just an idea... might be worth looking into.
-Also expos at 3,6,9 and 12 seem a little too wide open. May be some additional doodads will make it a little better.
-I'm also a fan for 4 player maps to be a little bigger overall. But that might be just me so take my opinion with a grain of salt on this one.


+ i do appreciate the item drop
+ i do appreciate the positioning of the shredder market or however the fuck it's called.
+ some of the creeps are actually good, eg. the ones at natural and shredder market and shops.
+ the overall design is not bad at all.


Just my 2 cents. i aint no expert neither at map making nor warcraft.

[FML|Mog]

played on Greenville Woods finally. I must say of the new maps I've played thus far this is my favorite!

Here are the things I liked:

-Great map layout and size. Rushing is a possibility, but hoarding could also be viable. It is one of those rare maps where multiple strats are possible; the map doesn't force you into one specific playstyle.

-Creeps around start location. The camps are all fairly easy, but you could open different ways because of the variety of creeps. Have to study the item drops per camp more closely, but from what I could tell they were good. Question though, does the orange camp with the 3 dragons always drop 2 agil tomes? I like it, I was just curious.

-I like when maps have a shop and goblin lab nearby each start location, but obviously that is personal preference.

-The layout of the map is nice. In my opinion it just works, but it looks and feels different from other popular ffa maps which is refreshing

Some things I didn't like:

-Lumber is lacking around main base. This just forces you to relocate shredder to other expos quickly, which isn't all that terrible...but gives elves a slight advantage.

Actually that's really the only thing I disliked. Sure, the Tavern can be annoying to get to...but in my opinion it is no different from Harvest of Sorrow (which happens to be my favorite ffa map).

Great work! Looking forward to playing more games on it.

[Mr.Henci]

on greenville
when u creep the new green camp on the top right spawn only the creeps from the goblin lab will attack

Thanks for pointing that out, fixed! 

-Creeps around start location. The camps are all fairly easy, but you could open different ways because of the variety of creeps. Have to study the item drops per camp more closely, but from what I could tell they were good. Question though, does the orange camp with the 3 dragons always drop 2 agil tomes? I like it, I was just curious.

Dragon camp drops one Lvl 1 Tome (+1stgr, +1agi, +1int, +50HP) + one Lvl 2 Tome (+2strg, +2agi, +2int, +1 to all stats, +100exp tomes) you simply didn't have luck with them 

-Lumber is lacking around main base. This just forces you to relocate shredder to other expos quickly, which isn't all that terrible...but gives elves a slight advantage.

- wood is scarce around the main base which i've never been very fond of.

 Added 20 trees per base, but I usually don't like to have more than 150 trees per base

-Also expos at 3,6,9 and 12 seem a little too wide open. May be some additional doodads will make it a little better.

Added few trees, but adding more doodads will make that expansion craped and in my opinion easy to mass tower. BUT, if more people are in favor of this change, I have no problem to implement it. 

Here is my latest update, Greenville Woods v1.3 http://www.epicwar.com/maps/267754/