FFA Masters League
General => Strategy => Topic started by: Seksi on August 05, 2013, 01:51:44 am
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YO... back from vacation.
Are you passionate about FFA?
As some may know, I've been working (on and off...) on the newest version of an FFA guide. I released the original version in 2008 with three more versions that followed periodically. I am going to overhaul the last version and start from scratch to create (hopefully) an FFA guide that will not only build upon but triumph over ones that came before it, ending with an ultimate product that is epic.
If you remember, a year or two ago I started making threads on ffareplays.com to spark discussion on different concepts in FFA. Most of these discussions reached over 50 comments and some over 100. I wanted to gather the opinions of the community and entice debate to achieve the best results when putting together my guide.
I saved a lot of this to use as a resource later on. Many players contributed and a special thanks to everyone that did. I wish to continue to seek out the community's thoughts and ideas to create the best possible product. There are many players (of all skill levels) with good opinions and a solid understanding of the game type. Most importantly, a passion that keeps the community thriving.
I have been active for the last week in a general FFA discussion on WCR. It has reached 6 pages or so and has some good information/contributions. Feel free to check it out at:
http://www.wcreplays.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143435
Furthermore, I want to bring more FFA discussion to these boards. I'm looking forward to taking advantage of the popularity and activity we see in FFA now. I will continue to gather thoughts from the community to add to my own and begin writing the final version of the guide soon.
Who's excited for this? :icon_biggrin:
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Sweet!!! I'm excited. I always link new FFA players to Nooblex's guide and tell them to only read the "General FFA Tips" section of his guide cause the rest is SO out of date. Having an up to date guide for me to link new players to would be great. Also, I really hope you add in a "General FFA Tips" portion at the top like blex had because they were easy to read and quick. Just reading that section basically nailed all the important factors of FFA without having someone read for hours.
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Absolutely. It will have general FFA tips for the newer players and more in depth strategy for the advanced. Also opinionated sections like the "FFA Hero Rankings" and much, much more.
I will be sure to comb over Nooblex's guide as well to make sure I don't miss anything important.
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Any updates on this?
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Recently i was thinking about change my race coz of bad micro and laptop :)
LW said elf requires no micro in FFA, human a little, orc more and ud the most.
So that i need to play first 2 )
What are your thoughts Seksi ?
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Any updates on this?
Soon! (Seriously). I'm in the process of moving as well as a lot of other things and I've put it off time and time again. I'll make sure to dedicate some time to it in the near future. Glad to see your interest!
Recently i was thinking about change my race coz of bad micro and laptop :)
LW said elf requires no micro in FFA, human a little, orc more and ud the most.
So that i need to play first 2 )
What are your thoughts Seksi ?
I think Undead is awesome and you get the most gratification winning with them. With that being said, I would agree that they require the most micro in general to handle other races. Reason being is that each race has a tough-to-deal-with unit as Undead. Human = Tanks, Orc = Bats, Elf = Hippos.
Elf is very simple at its basic form of Chims and Hippos so I'll agree with that. Chims and Hippos can basically "attack-move" so you can focus on using your heroes. You can build many wells and create expos without much need for towers. The micro required for Chims and Hippos is slim so Elf could be a good option. However, I would counter by saying that you may not improve much as a player playing the easiest / least micro intensive strategy. Also - against good players without good micro and different units added (dotts, bear, dryad, mg, etc) you won't be very strong.
Try out Elf, see if you like it. Elf can be very powerful. You can play Human or Orc also but they have a steeper learning curve to be played well. Or you can continue to practice Undead and do it the hard way which may be most satisfying.
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ud takes the most?
the only extra thing ud has to do compared to elf, is keep the gargs attack the air!
Although I agree it's a big difference, it's not big enough to go from no micro to most!
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destroyer usage is the most important part of undead
you can literally lose a fight if you miss devour
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Undead needs good micro specifically when using Gargs and Destroyers. Utilizing stone form, nukes, scrolls, coil, sleep, devour etc to defend against Tanks, Bats, and Chippo/Panda. Hero use with UD is critical too both using offensive nukes and defensive abilities (coil, frost armor, sleep). It's why you see the average UD player get rolled by other races. Undead can either do well vs Elf or do very bad there isn't much room between in my opinion.
Elf has attack-move units (Chim/Hippo), the best synergy with a super dominant, easy-to-use Panda, staffs at tier 2, and moon wells for quick heals. Undead lacks staffs, good healing, or a strong base making micro more important.
I mean don't get me wrong - all races require strong micro to be played well. It is just easier to play Elf at a good level compared to Undead.
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I completely agree that elf needs no micro, I just disagree that ud needs more than hu/orc :)
@persuade: casting devour on the unit icon instead of aiming it ftw! :P
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I think that every race needs a fair bit of micro to play well. You arn't going to win many games if all you do is mass chims and hippos and atk move. I do agree with seksi partially that UD is the hardest race to use well. The difficulty in using undead when fighting is:
vs elf: if garg arn't hitting hippos, you lose (and knowing how to position/move gargs to atk only hippos is much easier said than done)
vs HU: cant fight straight up without good heroes in many instances unless ur army perfectly counters, need nearly perfect positioning or tanks will rape everything in seconds. In addition, heroes die in seconds of out of position
vs orc: lolololol. but in all seriousness, you need PERFECT use of gargs with heal scrolls, stoneform, and positioning (making sure they arn't bunched up) or else they are all dead instantly. need to use destroyers well (and good orcs will always FF them down with orb'd BM and wyvs first, or bat them), and need perfect hero micro or else they die in seconds even at high levels.
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As an elf, I love the problems undead have against orcs
I can understand the heal scrolls and positioning
However complaining about devouring and stone forming properly? Elves don't have this problem because we simply don't have the option to do it... it's almost like a human complaining about healing light, because it's hard to pick a target :/ Just be happy you have the darn spell!
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elf has dryads... which are better in every possible way. Abolish can't miss, it's instant, and it's on a cheap unit that has a built in slow.
Sure devour is MUCH better as an AoE debuff, but vs the important spells, like sleep, silence, entangle, dryads require much much much less micro than a destroyer.
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What are these "dryads" you speak of?
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you know you can can aim devour on the icon of the unit so that it auto targets in it's center right?
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elf has staffs!
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Undead have a healing spell!
Sure I can staff my Panda to safety, but wouldn't it be even better to heal him up every few seconds so that it can keep on spamming haze & bof?
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staff + tele = full hp/mana
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Takes two items to heal a hero, immobilize the tp staff target for a while
Can only be done once per battle due to to the long cooldown
Healing with 1 spell is a lot easier, not to mention that tp staff could be a healing scroll instead!
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then lets go the other way
silence is one of the best ne spells.
a good silence on a dk usually = dead lich = very small amount of skill required
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The best ne spells are all from tavern hero (Silence/Bof/Haze)
DR has even more synergy with undead since dk can heal the bitch!
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better synergy with elf lol
antimagic protects from hu nuke, staff better at saving her, charm + staff better synergy
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True, silence is better for elves, since undeads apparently don't need protection from the hu nukes O_o
And charm is also much better in the hand of elves
because unlike undead every race makes unit superior to ours o_O
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just saying ud nuke is stronger without the DR
and DR in the hands of elf synergizes better with entangle + chim
and ud have antimagic shell already, so they have a decent enough spell as it is
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So basically, Elf's best hero is not good enough to replace ud's weakest? ;)
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sleep/carrion/inferno are just much more useful in most situations, its not about that at all
and panda is elfs best hero, dr is just really good
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I would argue that none of this matters! :) Always team up vs strongest player in game. If everyone is equal strength, team up vs:
1. Human = Orc (ezmode races)
2. UD = NE (hardmode races)
Exception to this is if HU or Orc don't use standard ezmode heroes (SH/TC for orcs, Mk/Pal for Hu), then they become hardmode too.
Top end FFA is like top poker, best heroes/best race/best micro should not have to win. You can be really bad and miss all devours/staffs and still win if you know who to team :)
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Where's the guide?
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Bump. Would like to see Seksi's mythical guide, even if it's still in the works. :D