Nice thread and cool ideas. In my opinion, I think less is more when it comes to balancing as any change can have ripple effects.
I have also always called for Tanks to be 4 food. They would still be extremely good and effective, but armies would be seen more consistently with 4-6 tanks instead of 6-8+ in a typical 80 food army. They already give a good amount of XP, at 4 food they would be not as completely dominant.
I like the idea to reduce Divine Shield duration slightly. I don't mind having the cool down as it is, in my mind it should be used for quick defense in vulnerable spots... not battle long invincibility.
I think Orc and Elf could be left as is. Orc in general should utilize Headhunters at times in their armies and that would help against some of the weaknesses it has early game. Each would also be slightly buffed by the slight nerfs of Human.
As for Undead, I would say increase the building HP across the board maybe 25% or at least 15%. Undead bases are paper thin and a huge reason why they struggle against every other races siege (think Bats, Chims, Tanks). Gargoyles should have a slight decrease in gold cost (by 10 or 15 gold) as they are Undead's most important FFA unit yet also the most expensive 2 food unit in the game. If UD loses a group of gargs it's about 2000g.
I believe the following changes would help equalize the current scope of FFA balance (In my opinion it is currently Human > Elf = Orc > Undead) without drastically changing the game.
Human:
- Tanks food cost increased to 4 (up from 3) - Paladin's Divine Shield duration decreased to 15/25/35 seconds (down from 15/30/45)
Undead:
- Increase the HP of all buildings by 15%. (Ex: Necropolis HP increased to 1650, up from 1500). - Gargoyles cost in gold decreased to 175g (down from 185g).
Slythe - Slythe was one of the best Random players too but maybe just a notch below players like Persuade or Alien. Slythe had a unique style and played very cool hero combos and army compositions with all races. He was the perfect FFA player: Didn't manip too much, could fight and compete, and played various strategies and styles. Slythe was one of my personal favorite players.
Ostone - Ostone was a very strong Orc player for some time. He was the most recent complete Orc player and would be on the above lists with more longevity. He would always tech and play without grunts and get high level heroes quickly.
Qwest - Qwest is an Undead player with good micro and manipulation skills. Most notably, he is great at hoarding gold and picking his spots to seize opportunities. He reminds me of a Nooblex type of play style in the idea of "50 food or 100 food". He is an excellent ladder player, known for his style of hoarding and manipulating.
Cechi - This solo pro joined FFA when he was the best western Undead solo player in the world. His micro was ridiculous and he would only play mass fiends! Like 20 Fiends plus Banshees and supported by Wyrms/Destroyer. I played a stacked FML match against him on Battlegrounds once with Elf and he almost came back despite a significant gold disadvantage. He would burrow his fiends, I would reveal with a Dust and he would devour the Dust before I could kill the fiends . He didn't play long and never really adapted his army compositions but it was a cool period of time when he played with us.
Ludix - Ludix was b100 before b100. Insane micro BM/TC/SH Orc player. Ludix had a more well rounded game compared to b100 and if you weren't careful Ludix would quickly roll over you with 100 food. Ludix would also manipulate in a lame style at times.
b100 - Plays today, b100 has better micro than anyone today except for maybe Trunkz. He knows how to play FFA and has a good style.. but he has limited strategy and not much for a comprehensive FFA game. Still a player that can beat anyone in battle and win games through dominant fighting.
Yaws - Yaws was the best solo player to ever play FFA (Yane has an argument). He picked up FFA pretty quickly and was absolutely dominant. Yaws would famously stay 50 food while maxing out all upgrades (building 2 blacksmiths) as fast as possible, and then jump to 100 food with an overwhelming army of Gryphon/Tank base. He was great and had better micro than everyone. He wasn't as well rounded and would lose at times vs players that he didn't completely dominate micro wise but had better FFA sense / strategy (see: Noexxx)
ujustgotshaved - Shave still plays and he is one of the better players that can compete in any game. He is a good Human and Orc player. Shave may not be as mentally tough (or care for that matter) to be a top player, but he is still surely a threat in any game he plays.
Mog[Skynet]- FML Champion; he fits the prototype for a winning FML player which is above average micro, but not great, combined with a great FFA sense. He had a tuned game awareness and was good at scouting and decision making. He won a nice final against Wreck for his title.
Vyvanne-of-Iel (Elsha)- - Elsha is as old school as they come, and he still plays today. He is a solid all-around FFA player that doesn't rely on manip or chat much! He ability to compete in any game has always been respected.
Gradient - Gradi has become a fan favorite with his play style and... unique language. He builds epic bases and plays fun hero combos. Don't rush him or break peace with him unless you are certain you will finish him. He has average micro and a knack for rebuilding and winning close games. In an era where many players are predictable, Gradient is not.
Rebuke[Skynet] - Rebuke was a solo pro turned FFA player that was a bit polarizing. He played Random but really was a Human player. He loved to play MK first... MK/Panda/Paladin and overwhelm with Tanks and Gryphons. He competed with the best FFA players but never took it serious enough to improve his game in other aspects.
ProtonXX - ProtonXX was the original NECROWAGON player! Rarely seen these days, Necrowagon can be extremely effective against Human and Elf. Proton played DK/Pitlord/DR. He was awesome and a fully prepped, 100 food wagon army could beat anyone in a straight up 1v1 fight. His weakness was of course, mobility or lack there of. He was strong enough to switch to gargs when needed and was a true FFA competitor back in the day.
Dovekie - Dovekie never played much FML, he played playFFA ladder though and frequented the forums. He had a WC3 mind and could discuss strategies and numbers regarding WC3 with the best of them. He would play Tinker first with Elf (Tinker/Panda/Potm) which owned Humans and Tanks and generally had a unique viewpoint when he came to FFA and how he approached games.
NOTE* I'm sure I forgot some players. Help me out! Who did I miss?
I'm interested in hearing your opinions and what you think of these lists as well.
I was having a very cool discussion regarding some of these topics. It's always interesting (and nostalgic) to discuss skilled players in the respective game (or sport) you compete in. I have a lot of experience with these players and hopefully can provide some insight as well. Without further ado, here are my lists for the best FFA players of all time, broken down by race.
[Lists are in no particular order]
HUMAN: Human is the best FFA race and it's no coincidence that this list has many incredible Human players.
htrt - Maybe the greatest FFA player of all time. He had elite micro and macro but also was extremely intelligent and understood the intricacies of FFA completely. He was the closest thing to a perfect Human player.
Target - The original Human powerhouse. He would often play only two heroes (MK/Paladin) and go fast 80/100 Gryphon/Hawk with a lot of pressure. He didn't play much after the beginning but makes this list for his (short) period of dominance.
Lightweight - My ultimate Rival! Lightweight was absolutely a top tier Human and Orc player. A fearsome player that was very well rounded in all aspects of FFA.
Noexxx - One of the best players of all time and arguably the best player from recent times. Noexxx has slick micro but also a unique and intelligent game. He could compete micro wise with some of the pro solo players from awhile back (yaws in Human mirror and Ludix against Orc) while still being balanced and playing an overall better game.
SuperCumulo - BNet solo pro turned FFA veteran. I met Cumulo around 2010 on BNet when he joined my custom FFA games. Our first game was on Twilight and I was Orc with DR/TC/SH. He was quickly interested in FFA and now has become one of the best Human players without question. High level of Micro and a developed sense for FFA and making the right decisions makes Cumulo a threat in any game.
Soso - Soso is another very strong Human player that started out playing with me for some time. He picked up FFA quickly and had a passion to improve. Great micro and strategy as well as decision making. He was a cerebral player that could compete with anyone. He and Noexxx were the best humans for a stretch of time.
RebbatS - Old school player, best known for winning strategic games and long 3 ways. He was the first version of a j33. type of player. He had good enough micro to compete in battle but he was really good at winning games against players with superior micro as well (think Eshan). RebbatS had some incredible finishes that made him unique.
Battle.Suck - The definition of aggression as a Human FFA player. He understood FFA enough and had top level micro. He was absolutely relentless; one of the most difficult players to fight against because he was non-stop. He also had crazy mixed armies that he managed to micro together and effectively. Gryphons, Hawks, Gyros, Breakers, Priest, Sorc, Mortar, Knight while using Tanks at your expos. He would quickly go 100 food and fight to the death!
Humans7ar - Humans7ar rounds out this list of top Human players. He didn't have elite micro but definitely good enough to compete. More than anything, he understood the ins-and-outs of playing Human and how to utilize them. He was able to adapt to any situation and rarely made mistakes. He loved to fight and hardly ever manipulated.
ORC: Orc is a lost race. Back in the day, Orc was one of the dominant races (if not the most dominant) regarding the number of skilled and high level Orc players. The best Orc players were well-rounded and absolutely dominant.
Invincible_Rice - Rice was the best FFA player in the beginnings of FFA. He played all ground (headhunters/casters/tauren/kodo) 100 food. No wyverns and no bats and he had insane micro and macro. His army controls were unmatched and he would often 1v2 or 1v3 players. He played FS/TC/SH with Orc Ground and had dominating ladder records. He was compared to Starcraft pros because of his macro and multi-tasking.
DarknessCallsMe - The master of DR/TC/SH Orc. Darkness skill was unreal and his hero combo was the absolute best fighting combo of any race. It's too bad that no one plays DR anymore. Silence adds to Stomp and Hex for a triple-disable that could lock down an opponent completely with good micro. I remember watching a FRAPS video (before the days of Twitch) of Darkness and seeing his 300+ APM. It seemed like a ton of unnecessary actions but he was as dominant of a player as anyone in his prime.
DasElend - BM/TC/SH in it's purest form. DasElend had it all... high level micro, macro and FFA sense. But what stood out to me the most was his BM use was the best ever. You were always scouted and his BM control was top tier. The knock on DasElend was that he was a true fighter and wasn't as effective of a player when losing the advantage early or forced into a scrambling situation. Regardless, DasElend was one of the very best Orc players to ever play.
Lightweight - LW's second mention on this list. LW was DarknessCalls' protege, and he was an incredible Orc player with BM or DR. He was pure, aggressive, and very tough to beat. His Orc was absurd and he would often 1v2 and in battles and come out on top.
y.zenchenko (y.z) - y.z. was the cookie cutter Orc FFA player played at the highest level. He abused Hex/Stomp as well as anyone. He had elite ward usage! The map was always dotted with Sentry Wards. He understood army composition perfectly at all food counts. y.z. was especially scary because he would frequently find times to hoard and knew how to get the most value out of situations.
Plush - I only played about 5 games vs Plush, but he makes this list because he was simply incredible with Wyvern micro. He would rarely play bats but rather focus on mass Wyvern/Caster with insane Hero micro. He would fight 50 vs 80 and force TPs or gain huge value trade. There was no better Wyvern micro Orc player. He was an Orc player that had the potential to be the best ever. On a downside, Plush was easily manipulated and didn't always respond well to getting teamed.
Nline - Nline was awesome! The consummate FFA pro. He would play DR and BM, but he was known for Alch/TC/SH. Nline had almost top tier Micro while having an amazing FFA sense and knack for winning games. Always a scary fighter, he would stay in fights instead of TP and literally fight his way out of them for what seemed like minutes. Notably, his Walker usage was incredible and always played a very cool style that was easy to root for.
ELF: Night Elf is a cool FFA race that can be played in many ways. It is quite versatile and that is evident with the various styles of players that made this list.
F-L-Y - The original best FFA player. He played in an era with a lot of skilled opponents and would consistently beat them. He played DR/Panda/Potm elf and incorporated Dotts and Lore units too. F-L-Y's micro was good, but his macro was the best ever. He would engage you in battle while having Chims siege your main base and expansions. He would split his army up and play strategic battles. He was also relentless; once you were in a 1v1 with him you had to expect to be sharp and control multiple groups and bases or else fall to the constant pressure.
Nooblex - Panda/Potm/Kotg. Nooblex was one of the best Elf players ever without having top tier micro. He was extremely smart and understood how to win games and how to have the advantage vs his opponents. One of his philosophies with Elf was to either be 50 or 100 food, rarely 80. He was elite at managing gold, building bases, and choosing his spots. His bases were beautiful and he was patient in his actions.
Wrecktify - The most successful FML player of all time, Wrecktify was also a very smart player. He didn't have elite micro but definitely could compete. Most importantly, he knew how to win games. He had a knack for making the right decisions and putting himself in a position to win better than anyone else. He understood how to communicate with others and utilize a specific in-game situation to his advantage. He was also a high level Human player.
Lost.Ancient - My favorite Elf player when I first started, he played Warden/Kotg/Panda with excellent micro and a decisiveness that was unmatched. It seemed like he knew exactly what he needed to do and went straight for it. He played Lore units primarily (MG/Dryad) and would tear up Human and opposing Elf players. His hero combo stood out more than anything and he had incredible control of each of his heroes. He was insanely good with Warden blinking and FoK and DR silencing and eventually charming units into his army. He also built great bases and loved to fight + not manipulate.
Under.StA - The original solo pro turned FFA player. Under.Sta played DH/Panda/Kotg and had incredible micro. As he learned FFA army compositions and how to manipulate he quickly became the best Elf player for a period of time.
j33 - One of the most clever players to ever play. He famously won an FML title against me when he hid a Tree of Life on the one cliff/spot on Harvest of Sorrows. I couldn't find it for the longest time and he eventually destroyed my last building with Treant summons from his Kotg after I killed it! It was arguably the most epic finish of any FML final (I can think of one other one on Twilight). In addition to that game, j33 also had a knack for winning games. I remember j33 the most for being the most skilled at navigating through a 3-way.
Renaud - Renaud! Renaud was obviously a brilliant wc3 mind. I used to love talking strategy with him. He was a very good Human player before he turned to Elf. Renaud would hoard gold better than anyone and he also made great decisions and didn't tilt. His micro was never top tier, but he maximized Chippo's effectiveness and could definitely win any game he was in. He was also famous for not having wood. Namely not spending any gold that wasn't absolutely necessary (including additional wood wisps :icon_lol)
Trunkz - Trunkz has been playing for the last couple of years. He likes to talk shit and thinks he is the best player to ever play but he can back up a lot of it through his micro. He plays DH/Naga/Potm and Hippo Riders/Dotts, but never Chimeras. He is the most dominant fighter in today's era and would be one of the best fighters in any era. He even manipulates now when he has huge advantages which is unfortunate. The knock on Trunkz is that he is the definition of a one-trick-pony. He only plays that race, hero combo and strategy. In fact, he emphatically declined to play an epic 12-way on Divide and Conquer recently because it didn't have a tavern. His lack of a well-rounded FFA game is made up for by his skill with the strategy he plays, he is a very tough fighter. He innovated with Naga as a second hero and uses Cyclone better than any other elf I've faced.
UNDEAD: Undead is the weakest race in FFA. UD can compete and surely win games but they are given weak bases and poor healing mechanics. In addition to that, their main unit (gargoyle) is overpriced. Chims, Bats, and Tanks all own Undead. Still, Undead has the potential to be great if you can fight well and take advantage of opportunities. The following players get a little bit more respect from me due to the fact that they played Undead. As you can see, there have been few top tier Undead players.
Magadansky - Aside from LW, Maga was my other fierce rival for a long time. He was The O.G. In my opinion, he was the best FML player of all time. He is right behind Wrecktify in FML titles. To quote Lightweight, Magadansky "played great in every single game and could win any game he was in". He was an Undead player that had the best FFA sense combined with high level micro and manipulation. The most prominent thought that I have when it comes to Maga is his consistency. He would always perform at a high level no matter what.
Tyrant - FML Champion, he won the final game against j33 and Magadansky and outplayed Maga in UD mirror. Tyrant had near top tier micro and understood FFA as well. He still plays now but never was a huge part of the scene.. However, when he played he was always one of the best Undead players and one of the most recent ones.
DV - DV is one of the best player's in today's game and he was also a top competitor in PlayFFA times. He won one of the seasons during it's most competitive time (seasons 1-5). Very good micro and awareness of other players, plus he will fight first and foremost before chat. Recently he plays cool combos like DL/Panda/DK or DL/Alch/DK.
Yane - Yane could have an argument for the Best FFA player ever. He was on a completely different level microwise. Yane had the best micro of any FFA player... even better than the likes of htrt, Cechi, and Yaws in my opinion. Plus... he played Undead! He would famously dual-tech by using a Banshee to possess opposing races workers. He had a sick army one game of Wyrms/Tanks with Inner Fire Priests . He was often teamed hardcore and didn't stay in the scene for too much, but was an active FFA player for about a year.
PencilWarrior - PencilWarrior was the original best Undead player, on the same level as F-L-Y and Lost.Ancient skill wise. He often played DL first and had ridiculous micro with gargs, stone form and scrolls. A common thought I had when thinking of Pencil is..."Oh shit, level 6 DL"
RANDOM: I give the most respect to a player that can play all races. I feel that is the ultimate testament of skill and a well-rounded game. Some players can play 2 races well, others can play all decently, but the following players could play all races at near equal levels and compete with anyone.
Persuade - Persuade was one of the best FFA players and excellent with all races. He always played Random and could compete at the highest level with any race. I think Orc was his best race, but they were all really close. His Orc could be on the Orc list also. Persuade and I played together for a lot of our "prime" and were rivals as skilled Random players. Persuade (along with LW) are two of the best players to never win an FML title. In fact, Persuade was in that FML final game I mentioned before with myself that j33. and j33. ended up winning.
Alien - One of the few players still playing today to make these lists. Alien was not as good back in the day, but he always played and eventually became a top tier player. He is also excellent with all races and never backs down from a fight. Alien is kind of similar to Persuade in a lot of ways. Skilled with all races and always a threat in any game he is in. Alien is one of the best players now and would compete at a high level in any era.
Brain.Man - Brain.Man aka TheThroneIsMine was a super talented player that was always on the fringe. When he played WC3, he said he would ruin his life because he wouldn't work or hang out with his girlfriend or family. He would often sell his PC to prevent himself from playing... but would come back for periods of time. As for his skills... he was a top tier Random player and especially good with Human or Orc. His Human and Orc would make the above lists too. He was absolutely unique in his play style. I remember him most when bitterly competing with him for the FML ladder titles 2012 and 2013. Really he was a cool (and strange) guy that was one of the best FFA players.
Eshan - Eshan makes this list with probably the worst micro of anyone mentioned. And I say that as a compliment. Eshan was the original manipulator and not just crying in chat but also playing a clever game that often won him games against opponents with better micro. Eshan was the "Legend Killer" because he would beat the best players in matches through other means than battles which was impressive. He knows how to stay in a game, survive, and end up winning maybe better than anyone else. Eshan also played Random and is/was good with all races.
F-L-Y - F-L-Y is mentioned under Random players because he was truly great with all races as well. His Undead was phenomenal and he actually won his FML title playing Orc and choosing DR/TC/SH .
-TC is a top 6-7 hero, definitely not #1. -Stampede and Volcano are good abilities. -The Demon Hunter is much more of an early game hero than he is a late game hero. -People who make dryad + hippogryph armies are the FFA equivalents of sjw gluten-free feminazis. -There is a disappointingly low hard cap to how skilled you can be in organized FFA. -Crypt Lord is worse than the Fire Lord, Beast Master, and Pit Lord in non-random hero games. He is the worst hero in the game. -Orc isn't stronger than Night Elf.
And I know I said this in my last thread, but: -Hippogryphs suck. Night Elves should try making literally almost pure chim armies more, whether to surprise people or against Orc/Human and let their heroes kill the air.
Now you.
Hey Dovekie, I always enjoyed discussing FFA with you. You have a lot of good insight in these points.
I must contest, however, that TC has to be at least a Top 3 Hero. Stomp is the single most overpowered 'battle ability' in the game. It has a absurd AOE range and stun time at Level 3, it's almost instant cast and only cost 90 mana. Aside from Stomp, Endurance Aura is the best 'battle aura' and last but not least, Reincarnation grants the TC immortality on a timer. This is what makes TC better than another, similarly insane in power hero, the Panda. Panda is at least vulnerable because his ultimate shuts down his main uses.
I can understand the rest of your points, well said. Crypt Lord does seem like the worst hero. The one factor that Orc has over Elf is that it's the only race that can have the advantage fighting Human of equal power. Elf and UD are weak to Human, naturally because Tanks own both their bases and air units. Orc is less susceptible to Human.
-Human is the best race in FFA. It is clearly above the other 3 races. I would say it goes Human > Elf = Orc > Undead.
Two changes I would make to FFA:
1. Increase Siege Engine food cost to (4) up from (3). This slight change would balance the scales just enough. Human 50, 80, and 100 food compositions would focus a certain degree less on Tanks.
2. Increase Undead building's health and/or armor slightly. Reduce the cost to produce a Gargoyle by (10) gold. As it stands, Human, Elf, and Orc can all destroy Undead bases too easily. The cost of a Gargoyle reduced by 10 gold would make them 175 gold (Hippogryph is 160 gold). Gargs are like paper and they are expensive. These two slight changes would bring UD back to balance in my opinion also.
Lastly, I miss big FFAs. 4-way FFA is too organized, to use Dovekie's word, most times. I think the greatness of FFA is found more often in games with 6 or more players.
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Human: 
Undead: 
. He didn't play long and never really adapted his army compositions but it was a cool period of time when he played with us. 
. He was often teamed hardcore and didn't stay in the scene for too much, but was an active FFA player for about a year. 
