M20 Result

[FML|ResultsBot]

M20
fetta_ook
aarnikratti (sub for SteppinRazor)
Slythe
SweeT
Download

(click to show/hide)

aarnikratti (sub for SteppinRazor) - 0
Slythe - 12
SweeT - 12
fetta_ook - 10

[ZsSuperCumulo]

Really good game, it was very active for the most part of the early game. I loved how well aarni played, unlike the preliminaries where he couldnt win one game out of the many that he played, this time he showed us all why he should have been accepted this season rather than being left alone in the observer benches.

@SweeT I think your comments on the map during the game are not entirely true, you probably said those things because you were the first one to be eliminated. I mean, everyone had around the same amount of gold for the majority of the game, if anything the game really look well balanced where each player gained momentum and then lost it due to poor decision making, bad engagement, a bit of teaming, etc. In your case Sweet you were defending pretty good vs red, eventhough he was making you sweat to stay alive. It wasnt until you made the terrible mistake of tping to defend your 11 oh'clock expo vs 100 pop green right after fighter aarni at his base, that move alone really cost you the game and burned all of your resources as it also put you in a disadvantage position for the rest of the game. As the great soso once said "you lost because you deserved to lose, it was your poor decision making that caused you the loss" so please don't blame it on the map.

I was also quite surprised at how well fetta managed to stay till the end with elf, I mean he did quite well vs the two undeads who imo should have had the upper hand given the high lvl nuke vs dh/panda/kotg.

Finally it's nice to see that so far, both games on this map have finished in a base race scenario, this in a way, means that the map is actually quite well balanced, because players have about the same chances of winning till the very end. I wonder if the Wrecktify's game will also end in a base race.

gratz on your win aarni, Winners' Circle fighting!

[SweeT]

I know that was my big mistake, and I admitted that already to slythe and others that Tping to save a pretty much gone exp vs 100 pop was a dumb move, I didn't realize until I already tped that this move would kill me.

But I still maintain my stance that your maps lack gold. Maybe its ok for the other races, but Orc needs some sort of bank to keep up bat production. Wyverns are usless vs mass gargs. It's my fault I didnt pick dragon Island.

[noexxx]

That's not true, with few gold and 12 bats or more, orc can get imba hero levels while the guy you bat wins 0 experience out of killing your bat. Than with your higher hero levels you can aclick the elf or undead heroes and win the game. Ask it to renaud or Magadanky. Tbh orc biggest weakness is early rush, but than they are very imba. Stronger than human in fights but a bit weaker in mobility due to mass tp. Playing elf or ud against a very good orc is a nightmare, believe me

[Gradient]

aarnikratti end Slythe <3

A well balanced game. Well looked. There were emotions.

respect guys

[vercingetorix]

I was sure Slythe would win it, he had such a good chances but overlooked an infernal demolishing his hall. Very intense game. But I have to agree with Sweet - this map is really low on gold. On the other side it might be good that no one has to play 4+ hours.

[ZsSuperCumulo]

@SweeT , @vercingetorix

I don't remember exactly how much gold each gold mine has, but I know it has approximately the same amount of gold as Death Rose/Fountain of Manipulation/Twisted Meadows with a +/- 2 or 2.5k gold diference per player. In other words, if you struggle with your resources is because your gold management wasn't the best and perhaps you need to reconsider your approach for future games on this particular map. The reason why it "feels" like this map has low gold is because the second expansion comes much later than in other maps, so while in maps like Market Square or Twilight Ruins you can have 2 expansions running and more than 5k by minute 10, on this map you will most likely have 1 expo by that time and around 2k, but if you hoard and play it passively the same way crylaxu and eshan did while I fought Jaod then you can go as much as 7k or higher.
One last note on the "usefulness" of the center of the map, it provides extra creeps for gold, xp and items, which are crucial for late game since there is no market place; it also provides a shortcut for going diagonally if it's still a 4,3 way and u want to switch targers/save someone. I believe Cozy sands has the same issue, the center is wide and open, but empty, it only has 1 fountain of health which imo favors elfs and orcs more than humans and und.

[SweeT]

@cumulo. You can definitely not hoard here. The map is too small, it takes either slythe above me or aarni below me 10 seconds from their base to mine. I had no chances to hoard at all. Only a guy like fetta could get away with it, because well, everyone know his micro sucks anyway.

Maybe it just felt like low gold, not sure.

[Slythe]

@ thendis

Watched the cast. another good one (only watched 2 so far). I also skipped the midgame most boring part so i don´t know how much you hated it :P. Some good insight, but you also got a couple of things wrong or did not see, but that´s not uncommon in 4way ffa. I also like how you pronounce my aka name, it´s almost perfect ;).

About the game:

Damn, i had a couple of chances to take this and i knew directly when i was eliminated. But i had fun playing it and cannot complain about my overall play or prep.

I dunno about the lag/spike issues i had. Maybe it´s bcuz of the bot [we did not use the standard fml bot?, but with it it prolly woulda been even worse ?, but maybe its also cuz of playing with sweet? cuz it was also heavily laggy last game with him, but even worse with 2 (south)Americans , especially once owner was set to an American.] When you´re used to that kind of lag/spikes it´s ok, but i usually have around 100ms. Also playing ud is maybe the hardest with ping issues. Woulda played elf or human otherwise :P.

Some mistakes like losing DL to creeps, not seeing fetta´s first attack on me, attacking orc when i had basically only gargs, not engaging aarnis heroes 1-2 times near the end, when i had the chance (or trying to wipe him around the 75 min mark). All of these i knew already, but in the very end i thought i´d lose anyway, once my last building is spotted, atleast vs 2-3 heroes. I actually had a chance with defending the building vs heroes/infernal, i guess, although it would been very minimal and even if i had defended it vs aarni, fetta probably woulda kill it, so w/e.

Aarni played overall well and thus deserving this win.

Sweet had a hard time with me attacking him a couple times, which maybe threw him a bit off balance, idk. I was looking for the fight cuz

1. i originally wanted to attack the orc, because vs ud/elf the armies would been similar, most likely, but aarni attacked him and fetta went on me.
2. when i peaced wtih fetta and aarni asked for peace towards sweet i thought it´s a chance to fight some xp and not letting orc to get too much gold (was also the reason i attacked him, where we both lost 40 pop and he was unfortunately attacked by aarni afterwards.)

Fetta caught me there in the begin. Dunno if he planned to play elf, but he played his cards quite well. I knew he had more gold than me in the end and he came close to winning the game.

[Gradient]

  Slythe You were a hero.

[ZsSuperCumulo]

@SweeT I checked other 4 players maps and it turns out all of them, except for deathrose, have 2.5k less gold or less than Meson de la Taberna. Even Fountain of manip has the natural expansion with 15k gold while Meson has 17.5k gold.
If I give 2.5k gold more to each players' main base then I would have to remove 2.5k from the natural expansion, meaning that both goldmines, your main and natural expansion, would probably run out about the same time which kinda sucks imo. I think it's better for players to have a continuous flow of gold throughout most of the game, although not as much as it is in 8 players maps, than to have an excess of gold for the first 30 to 40 minutes, but once both gold mines run out (about the same time) all you have is one expo with less than 12.5k.
Given the nature of games we've seen on Meson and how close they all came to be in a base race scenario, I think the map is pretty well balanced. Wreck said something about remove 1/4 of the creeps, but I'm not sure because since the gold influx is not as fast as it is in other maps then the "extra" creeps help in that regard; plus there is no market shop to buy imba items so the "extra" creeps can also help there.
Regarding the center of the map and how difficult it is to get to the other side, well I think unlike Harvest where you can just walk straight and get across quite rapidly, in Meson may take a few more seconds which can be crucial since it provides extra time for a player to get ready.