FFA Masters League

General => News => Topic started by: FML|Renaud on November 25, 2011, 08:28:17 pm

Title: M11 Results
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 25, 2011, 08:28:17 pm
:FMLMO:

M11
:Bulgaria: :ud: 3wd.Simo
:Canada: :orc: rygorych
:Poland: :hu: QHKane
:Sweden: :hu: Dkh.Starshaped

Download (http://www.ffareplays.com/dl.php?file=FML-S11-M11b.w3g) (Save Game)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: DarKNeSSCaLLs on November 25, 2011, 08:37:10 pm
Post replay?  :icon_frown:
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 25, 2011, 08:39:06 pm
What happened:
After about 1h of game play everyone started to spike/lag, so they saved and rehost

The new host was making Kane lags from time to time, but for some reason, he din't save, he just decided to live with it i guess, and the other players had about 3 major battles (all vs maga!)
After about 5 min, rygorych dropped, discing both from the game and ggc (and then they saved the game)  since ebo din't rejoin ggc, we kept on playing (no point in rehosting for someone who isn't there) and then Kane dropped (possibly the host's fault, but since he had trouble with the previous host too...)
At that point, we din't really knew what to do.  According to  the rulebook, the game should go on, fair play would probably have been to rehost, i decided to let the player keep on playing (i once made them quit and got shit because i shouldn't have, i think the game was TheFrozenPrince, Walking, Fly... and i dont remember the 4th... hydro?)
Ebo got back on ggc ~6-7 min after his disc, but at that point the game had proceeded too far (imho) for the rehost, so we kept on playing.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: DarKNeSSCaLLs on November 25, 2011, 08:41:41 pm
Why not just gather the 4 players together and start again from the first save point? Naturally I wasn't there, so my opinion probably doesn't carry a lot of weight, but since 2 players disconnected, that's what I would have done.

EDIT: Actually I guess with the upcoming deadline it's probably not feasible.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 25, 2011, 08:45:38 pm
The problem was that by the time the 4 player where actually present again, the game had played for 10-20 min, so restarting it would have been :/

And restarting from the first point now would be... "hard", because player talked about game and ppl know gold

We *could* completely rm, but we only have 2 days (and "according to the rulebook" it shouldn't be a rm)
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: hejpådigStarshaped on November 25, 2011, 08:55:43 pm
It's very unfortunate what happened, but I don't think there's any possible result other than the current one. It would be unfair to award 25 points to anyone except the actual winner, since it's FFA and anything can happen, so you can't really say anyone had a clear win, at least not clear enough to change the actual outcome of the game. However, this isn't up to me and I will respect any decision the admin(s) make.

Again, it was an unfortunate turn of events, but I hope nobody is too upset, shit happens, and I'll just end by saying gg and gl next match to everyone in this game.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: rygorych on November 25, 2011, 09:03:57 pm
I was in Garena after my disconnect. I said: "ok that was a disaster", assuming everyone got dropped, not just me. I also send a PM to renaud asking for directions  as to what happens next. He did not answer. I quit Garena and re connected, and found Slythe in channel, who said that both I and Kane dropped and Maga/SS went on to 1v1.

Look, the game was clearly fine until the host lagged out and we re-hosted.

Kane started lagging immediately after we loaded from save. I was NOT lagging, but I dropped anyways - I don't know why.

I disagree completely with the decision to go on with the game after it was clear that the re-host from save was not working out. If I knew I would drop, I would obviously try and pause/save, etc, but I only saw Kane's lag window, and nothing else.

As far as I'm concerned it was anyone's game at the point of first save, and we should either replay from there, or play the game entirely from scratch.


The other option I'm OK is to award everyone (each of 4 players) 12 points just so we can save time and move on to next round.

Starshaped I'm sure you're more than happy with the way the game worked out for you, but this is not being fair to Kane and me, who were obviously just fine until the rehost. Rehost fucked things up for Kane, and myself, somehow. We were perfectly fine with the original host. I'm not sure how anything can be more clear than this. This is host's fault, not ours. 2 people don't just drop randomly out of the blue after a rehost.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: Peregrine on November 25, 2011, 09:27:27 pm
yo nice plug pull bro, DC to the face

but yeah most fair would seem a complete rematch, or atleast a rehost from original save, considering two player dropped.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: DarKNeSSCaLLs on November 25, 2011, 09:54:20 pm
Quote
or atleast a rehost from original save, considering two player dropped.

That option is not really possible now, the replay has already been posted, everyone would know gold/expansion/etc info from everyone else.

The only real options are:

1.) Leave it as is
2.) Start an entirely new game
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: rygorych on November 25, 2011, 10:02:38 pm
Darkness, option 1 is only good to Starshaped.

Option 2 is fine by me but there is probably not enough time unless we can schedule fast.

My suggested other option, that's fair to everyone is to give each player 12 points and move on. 4*12=48 = about same total points as normal (25+10+10+5=50).

Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: KiLLyoSeLF on November 25, 2011, 10:04:26 pm
Disconnects have always been part of FML, why must something special be done this time? This is not a semi or a final, ffs.

And of course ebo wants rm, he went no t1, was rushed, and is listed as 4th. Lol
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: KiLLyoSeLF on November 25, 2011, 10:13:19 pm
By the way, rule book is quite clear (about discs, host or player's fault) all 4 players have to agree to replay (and do it by Monday)...doesn't say anything about admins choosing.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: Peregrine on November 25, 2011, 10:15:07 pm
that other option, 12 points each, is completely unfair to the rest of the league. it gives you all more points than anyone who got 2nd/3rd legitimately in their own match. splitting up the points evenly at any number, whether 12 or 5 or 25, makes no sense

rehost/keep it as it is do seem the only options
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: KiLLyoSeLF on November 25, 2011, 10:17:44 pm
The only option is leave it as is. FML doesn't rm qualifiers because of discs, why a R2 game?
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: Peregrine on November 25, 2011, 10:53:12 pm
because i want to see ebo get smashed =)

starshaped rush on ebo was funny
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: Walking.TrL on November 25, 2011, 10:54:03 pm
Just for some clarification that makes no difference...

When we rehosted, Kane was on-off lagging (showing him on the lag screen) then Ebo was showing on lag screen and went down the countdown and was dropped, but as soon as he was dropped so was I and I think 1 other OBS.  So it was clearly not just Ebo's connection.


On the other hand, from watching the game up until the 1v1... the points turned out the same way the game would've turned out, maybe with the exception of maga getting 11 points.

Eshan, Ebo got smashed anyway.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: DarKNeSSCaLLs on November 25, 2011, 10:57:05 pm
Quote
that's fair to everyone is to give each player 12 points and move on

I can't see that as being fair to anyone really, maybe fair to you 4 players but definitely not for the rest of the league.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: FML|WorpeX on November 26, 2011, 01:18:15 am
By the way, rule book is quite clear (about discs, host or player's fault) all 4 players have to agree to replay (and do it by Monday)...doesn't say anything about admins choosing.

This. You don't need to me to make any decisions. The rule book has your answer. If all 4 players agree to replay it, replay it (as long as its by monday). If not, sucks for those who disconnected. It makes for terrible games but their is nothing we can do about it.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: Q-veta on November 26, 2011, 03:36:14 am
If kane and ebo dropped how the fuck did Starshaped beat Maga? When the replay posted ended they had about the same amount of gold and Maga had 9-9-9 heroes vs SS's lvl 2 paladin.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: Q-veta on November 26, 2011, 03:38:30 am
Also Starshaped I told you to rush Magadansky first because the other 2 can't micro! Imagine the entertainment you would have given us.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: rygorych on November 26, 2011, 05:21:56 am
Just for some clarification that makes no difference...

When we rehosted, Kane was on-off lagging (showing him on the lag screen) then Ebo was showing on lag screen and went down the countdown and was dropped, but as soon as he was dropped so was I and I think 1 other OBS.  So it was clearly not just Ebo's connection.


On the other hand, from watching the game up until the 1v1... the points turned out the same way the game would've turned out, maybe with the exception of maga getting 11 points.

Eshan, Ebo got smashed anyway.

I had 15k gold and lvl 6 Farseer. This alone is enough to win any game, especially with 4 players still standing. Look at Eshan winning the monsoon game, and stepping hanging in there until the very end.

Ans smashed? I was suicided, like Darkness was suicided on Monsoon. Having grunts/hh makes zero difference. He'd keep attacking and eventually add MK+mortar+priests. Starshaped doesn't just magically leave after realizing that he is wasting 5 min for minor exp while other 2 players are creeping the shit out of the map. If anything, having grunts/hh would make him stay even more because that's actual exp (unlike 2 towers + 1 hired troll he killed in all that time...lol). Trust me, if he didn't rush, you'd see an entirely different game. But it doesn't matter. I got rushed, I didn't cry for help like a little bitch, I took my chances to rebuild with lvl 1 sh lvl 1 tc while others players had the whole map to creep and expo on. And I came out of it pretty well in the end with 6/3/3, which is enough to sit around and harass and wait out for an appropriate 1v1.

----------


Anyways, it's clear from comments that this was not the players fault that they disconnected. The rehost was bad, and I just can't see how 2 players can take penalty for that.

I'm asking admins to allow scheduling for a replay, either from the 1 hour save or from scratch.

And honestly, it shouldn't matter if maga, starshaped and qhkane want a replay or not. In this case, admins should enforce it. I realize there are 2 days left until R3, but then what I suggest is, the points we have now are used to make match ups for Round 3, but this particular game (M11) is replayed at a later time during next week at players' convenience.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: rsm on November 26, 2011, 05:57:25 am
Keep in mind I didn't see the replay

The disc was not a player connection, but from the host since multiple people were dropping. If the players who disced had even a 10% chance of winning the game it should automatically be re-hosted right there and then. Ebo was still in the channel on his screen, but when you disc from ggc it doesn't tell you and you see yourself in the channel with nobody responding to you( took me years to realize that one)

You can't reload the save now as people will pull a grubby( watch saved game), so I hope you guys end up replaying the match from scratch. Why are people like killyoself in here with their biased opinions trying to screw over somebody because they fucked you over in a previous game.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: Magadansky on November 26, 2011, 06:16:44 am
to Q, I lost because of mass tanks killing my main from all sides.

to ebo, you had the least chances of winning this game and if it kept going I am pretty sure that you would still have the 5 points. Kane, on the other hand, was in the lead and he should be WAY more sorry about it than you.

Still, I am fine with replaying it if everyone else agrees. I am free today and tomorrow so I can play. I am also cool if we leave it as it is, at least I lost because of my mistakes at the end. So... if you guys want to play it, go into garena.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: Rain on November 26, 2011, 06:20:24 am
Facts:
1. Kane had pc/inet problems all along
2. First lagging --> save happened because the host disced from ggc = GGC BUG
3. Rygo dropping happened because he disced from ggc = GGC BUG (or his own connection)
4. When rygo dropped he caused a minor obs bug which led to a few ppl lagging.

What should have been done:
- When Kane started lagging in the rmk (for 5-10min on-off lag) SAVE THE GAME, and rehost.
- Now had rygo immediately after discing returned to ggc room (which he didnt for 10-15min), the host couldve left upon admins decision, forcing a rehost.

And lastly.

The results would have probably been exactly the same. Even though Kane had easily the most gold, he was never gonna win it. Rygo was also never gonna win it with those hero lvls + spending so much gold while teaming maga. Now with the discs, starshaped 1v1 beat maga. Had the discs not happened, it would have been 3v1 against maga and he wouldve gone out way earlier

Yes its a sad way to see a game end like this but honestly it didnt change the results at all.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: rygorych on November 26, 2011, 06:25:24 am
I did not have the least chances to win. I had better heroes and more gold than Starshaped and certainly more chances to win than you maga because you were about to be 3v1ed. After maga left, I planned to team up wtih kane vs starshaped, which would give me at least a chance at 1v1. And maga it's not about all people wanting to replay. In this case, I believe, even 1 is enough to require a replay, and admins should enforce that. Injustice to one is injustice to all, and all that.

I'll be checking in to Garena regularly, but really QHkane and Starshaped barely check the website, so we need an official statement from the admins to have the replay scheduled.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: Magadansky on November 26, 2011, 06:35:59 am
You really think that you stand a chance when with 10 bats you kill one garg? Dont be naive.

And if one player is enough for a replay, then all the matches in this league would be constantly replayed because, guess what, the losers would love to replay it until they win (but then the new losers will want to replay). Stupid logic. As I said, I am willing to play it again if the others are fine as well. But you were the worst player in the game and your 5 points were the most deserved.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: rygorych on November 26, 2011, 07:05:04 am
Maga what you're saying makes zero sense. What we have is an exceptional situation, which possibly never happened before.

It doesn't matter, even if I had 1% chance  to win, this should be replayed. And I had far more than 1%. The rehost was bad. I don't know if I and Kane were not tunneled, or something... doesn't matter. If you think it's ok the way 2 players just drop after a re-host, you know what, fuck you, because you're automatically a piece of shit in my book.

Going to wait on admin's official stance on this. But if the points go up in the way they are now, I'll just save everyone some time and drama, and part ways there and then. I'm OK to reschedule for next 2 days, but I want to know if admins support this, and if I alone set up a time and show up for it, I want to know that I get 25 points and others get 0 for no-show.

My times:
Tonight 9-10-11-12PM EST
Tomorrow 4-5-6 AM EST
Tomorrow 9-10-11-12PM EST
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: Magadansky on November 26, 2011, 07:48:20 am
Here is your official admin stance:

By the way, rule book is quite clear (about discs, host or player's fault) all 4 players have to agree to replay (and do it by Monday)...doesn't say anything about admins choosing.

This. You don't need to me to make any decisions. The rule book has your answer. If all 4 players agree to replay it, replay it (as long as its by monday). If not, sucks for those who disconnected. It makes for terrible games but their is nothing we can do about it.

And I could care less if I you think I am a piece of shit. And rofl about you setting the time alone. READ the quote above. I will quote it again if you somehow missed it again:


By the way, rule book is quite clear (about discs, host or player's fault) all 4 players have to agree to replay (and do it by Monday)...doesn't say anything about admins choosing.

This. You don't need to me to make any decisions. The rule book has your answer. If all 4 players agree to replay it, replay it (as long as its by monday). If not, sucks for those who disconnected. It makes for terrible games but their is nothing we can do about it.
[/b]

And I said I can play so if you want to replay so much, contact starshaped and kane
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: rygorych on November 26, 2011, 08:25:20 am
That's akin to saying that if during a poker game, one side of the game room collapses and buries 2 players, and the organizers say: "yeah, if all players want to replay this, sure, otherwise your loss, other 2 players get your money."

It's up to the organizers to facilitate a fair environment for all players. If it's clearly new host's fault that a player disconnects, it's up to the organizers to re-host the game so it is once again fair to everyone.

1.HealingWind hosted
2.After 5 min everyone was fine
3.We played normally for over 1 hour
4.Whatever the fuck happened, everyone disced
5.Some piece of shit new host re-hosted
6.Me and Kane lagged out within 5 minutes of new host
7.The match goes on? You're saying this is fair?

Worpex is pretty clearly burying his head in the sand on this one, as are other admins. Noone wants to get flamed after making a hard decision.

Well, Worpex, honestly, I'm not going to flame. Just tell me that you admins are not going to enforce a replay on this, and I can leave the league on friendly terms instead of coming back to argue with dumbasses like a few posters above.

Or if it's easier, vote on it, yay or nay: There are 3 admins, so it makes it easy to decide, and not one takes the flak.

Option 1: leave points as they are
Advantages:
1. No need to spend time/effort replaying
2. Ebo leaves the league, everyone rejoices and celebrates with a victorious lan orgy
Disadvantages:
1. You basically state that you don't give a shit about providing a fair playing environment for everyone in the league

Option 2: enforce and facilitate a re-play
Disadvantages:
1. Time and effort to facilitate scheduling
Advantages:
1. You prove that you are willing to make a hard decision to make fair
2. You retain ebo the troll who provides awesome entertainment for everyone, clearly

Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: FML|WorpeX on November 26, 2011, 08:58:07 am
That's akin to saying that if during a poker game, one side of the game room collapses and buries 2 players, and the organizers say: "yeah, if all players want to replay this, sure, otherwise your loss, other 2 players get your money."

It's up to the organizers to facilitate a fair environment for all players. If it's clearly new host's fault that a player disconnects, it's up to the organizers to re-host the game so it is once again fair to everyone.

1.HealingWind hosted
2.After 5 min everyone was fine
3.We played normally for over 1 hour
4.Whatever the fuck happened, everyone disced
5.Some piece of shit new host re-hosted
6.Me and Kane lagged out within 5 minutes of new host
7.The match goes on? You're saying this is fair?

Worpex is pretty clearly burying his head in the sand on this one, as are other admins. Noone wants to get flamed after making a hard decision.

Well, Worpex, honestly, I'm not going to flame. Just tell me that you admins are not going to enforce a replay on this, and I can leave the league on friendly terms instead of coming back to argue with dumbasses like a few posters above.

Or if it's easier, vote on it, yay or nay: There are 3 admins, so it makes it easy to decide, and not one takes the flak.

Option 1: leave points as they are
Advantages:
1. No need to spend time/effort replaying
2. Ebo leaves the league, everyone rejoices and celebrates with a victorious lan orgy
Disadvantages:
1. You basically state that you don't give a shit about providing a fair playing environment for everyone in the league

Option 2: enforce and facilitate a re-play
Disadvantages:
1. Time and effort to facilitate scheduling
Advantages:
1. You prove that you are willing to make a hard decision to make fair
2. You retain ebo the troll who provides awesome entertainment for everyone, clearly

Really dude? look at it from the admins point of view. The first host was bad, you rehosted it as you should have. The second host was bad... and you didn't rehost it like you should have. When players disconnected, we WOULD HAVE FORCED A RE-GAME had you shown up in the Garena channel within an acceptable amount of time. 15 minutes later breaks the "delay of game" rule so they never rehosted it.

Now, the game is over and you are crying for a rehost. This is 100% unfair to Starshaped who won this game legitimately. As for Maga, sure he would like a rehost, but getting the highest score in this match is not the worst result and even forcing a rehost on him is not fair. So basically, its unfair for 2 players to be forced to rehost when it does not concern them and unfair for 2 players who disconnected because of their own failures to rehost the game and showing back into garena within a reasonable time.

Now, i'm an admin who goes by the book 99% of the time and unless there is a DAMN GOOD reason to bend the rules, I won't do it. This case is not one of them. If all 4 players agree to replaying the game, be my guest. Maga already wishes to do so and I'm confident that Kane will too. Starshaped is a reasonable guy, talk to him about rehosting this game instead of arguing in this forum.

You are correct when you say that it's up to the organizers to facilitate a fair environment for all players. This is EXACTLY what we are doing. Rehosting because Ebo says so, is not all players. What you need to do is talk to the players themselves, in the end, the only one who can get this game replayed is going to be Starshaped. Hell, I wouldn't even mind letting you guys play this a day late if you need to.
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: hejpådigStarshaped on November 26, 2011, 09:25:03 am
If kane and ebo dropped how the fuck did Starshaped beat Maga? When the replay posted ended they had about the same amount of gold and Maga had 9-9-9 heroes vs SS's lvl 2 paladin.

I actually militia-rushed Maga in the first game, but Kane said he needed to restart his computer, so we did a regame. That happened 2-3 times and the one time we actually play is the one time I didn't have anyone right next to me >_<

And I won through sheer tank numbers + mass tp. Was actually really close. Sold all my items to make a last wave of tanks, which were enough to kill his last buildings.

As for playing a re-game, I don't see any reason to do it unless the admins decide it is needed. Discs sucks and that game was marred with difficulties but all I did was play the game and after 3 hours I ended up the winner, so you can see why I don't really have any desire to play ANOTHER FFA, on Gold Rush no less. One FFA every 1-2 weeks is more than enough for me -_-
Title: Re: M11 Results
Post by: FML|WorpeX on November 26, 2011, 09:30:02 am
And that is your answer Ebo. Starshaped does not wish to rehost because it is unfair to him. Case closed.