8:30PM EST? That's 11:30PM for me on west coast and I have to work the next day. I guess I could play it today no later than 8PM EST but otherwise I'd rather wait until next weekend.
I'm good to play on the weekend between 11AM - 9PM EST. I can play on weekdays if game begins between 10PM - 12AM EST, but I really prefer to play on weekends.
it might start out with good intentions but it'll probably end up turning you into a player/person you and your friends won't like, paranoid and less able to enjoy wc3.. always looking for vengeance
Oh man I gotta check the player list again and make sure Charles didn't make the cut, he could probably convince me to leave the game with that manip LOL
I don't mind waiting until next weekend to play if Sunday is really Seksi's first game of wc3 in months. And unless everyone would rather play Monday/Tuesday.
It's fine Kruppe, I have very little personal experience of FFA, while you all have plenty of games and ability to your credit. I understand if it's hard to take my thoughts seriously as a result, and I appreciate that you all have taken the time to reply. I appreciate the apology, and thanks Daselend for making those points in your post :) And while I'm at it thanks to rygo and Renaud for their responses as well. Just to be clear I ultimately defer to you guys' judgement on this topic.
In all seriousness though it may be as you say - that people just need to learn to scout and get smarter about who to team out, and that it's only a matter of time before that happens - and I hope you're right, because it is a lot more interesting to see players take decisive action early on when the iron is still hot.
Case in point was Q-veta's game with y.z. (on Deadlock I think), where Q-veta rushed him out quickly, precisely because of the danger y.z. would have posed later in the game. I (and I'm sure other people are as well) am looking forward to seeing more games like that, especially where the roles are reversed and a player like, say, Duck will have no qualms or reservations about rushing out someone like Q-veta for the same reason (or, as happened to you vs Starshaped on Gold Rush, force him to relocate), and other players in the game won't feel like Duck must now be teamed for the rest of the game, as Q-veta wasn't vs y.z. - after all, he had just rushed out a dangerous player.
Maybe people do just need to smarten up and study FFA. I know there's a good chance I'm wrong on all this since I'm not primarily an FFA player. But I am wondering what fighters think of the idea.
EDIT: and when I say "fighters" I'm referring to players such as Dase, Maga, Duck and Darkness, and anyone else who generally has no problem cleaning up in fights. I know my fighter/teamer terminology is reductive since most players are hybrids, but it's just for argument's sake, as I'm sure everyone understands already.
The argument is relevant since it implicitly argues for the continued use of PM in the league. Banning PM will just further make teamers appear weaker and fighters appear stronger, for the reasons I have already given.
Best,
ReFlekKt
As an aside: In theory banning PM is an advantage for fighters since they will no longer be required to scout coordinated attacks, which ironically amounts to something like a legal maphack for fighters when it is needed the most (when two or more players are coordinating to hit him at the same time). Again, though, I've already explained why I think banning PM will end up having the opposite effect for which it is intended.
I know it sounds counter-intuitive that the solution to "too much teaming" in FML is to permit PM and preteaming to go unchecked, but look at my argument rather than my post count to determine whether or not my vote in the poll is worthwhile.
The best fighters are perceived to be much more dangerous than the best teamers, for two related reasons: teamers are not permitted to use all of the weapons at their disposal - preteaming, feeding, manipping and, perhaps in the near future, PM chat. Fighters on the other hand are not impeded in any way: any combination of heroes and units is permitted. Fighters cannot hide or lower the levels of their heroes. Fighters can use whatever style of fighting best suits them, and some of them do it so well that they either have nicknames related to how regularly and intensely they're teamed for it (Maga's curse) or they're required to off-race to be perceived as less of a threat (Dase). It is easy to assume the worst about fighters and how much trouble they're going to be for you when they're fully able to exercise they're capabilities. Not so with teamers. The strength of the teaming style of play in FML, and by extension of teamers themselves, is diluted by the limitations imposed on teaming and feeding - the fighters as a result look much more dangerous than the teamers do, and in fact are much more dangerous, since their style of play is not limited by the rules, while the teamer's style is.
All I'm suggesting is that teamers be allowed to achieve their potential in the game-type. My argument is that when their true strength has been seen, the fighters will look a lot less dangerous, and the way FFAs in FML are played out will be much more diverse than the whittling down of 3 players who must continually stab each other in the back for 2 hours, all because teamers are not currently dangerous enough to make rushing them out a viable or wise option in FFA.
Imagine going into a game with a mix of teamers and fighters, and being forced to assume the worst of all of them in terms of their potential - preteaming, Orc tri-hero, and the threats of some whiner in the late game that he will feed items and heroes to another player if you attack him one more time (which is really just the weak fighter's version of a suicide against you) - if you knew going into the game that each given player was capable of each of those things, would it not change the way you and every other player devised your strategy in each game? And would it not force you to re-evaluate the danger each player in the game poses to your chances of winning at any given stage in the game? I really don't see being forced to undergo another learning curve as such a terrible thing, especially when it has the potential to shake up the way FFA in FML is currently played. I really enjoy watching the games, but I think there is a lot of untapped potential as it stands.
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