FFA Masters League

General => News => Topic started by: FML|ResultsBot on January 08, 2017, 08:05:08 pm

Title: M51 Result
Post by: FML|ResultsBot on January 08, 2017, 08:05:08 pm
M51
:Peru: :hu: ZsSuperCumulo
:World: :ra: Renaud (sub for :Peru: :ud: NoMercy2)
:Sweden: :ra: FML|junkerzam
:USA: :ra: Eshan
Download (http://tft.w3arena.net/replays/details/10709/)

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Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: DV- on January 08, 2017, 08:05:47 pm
http://www.strawpoll.me/12064800
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: Tleilaxu on January 08, 2017, 08:15:30 pm
I guess unpausing is tolerated in FML. Will keep that in mind for the next season.
#unpauselo
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: NoMercy2 on January 08, 2017, 08:17:31 pm
Lol tleilaxu
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: ZsSuperCumulo on January 08, 2017, 08:19:06 pm
lol, you gotta be kidding me. That unpaused that no effect what's so ever in the game. Eshan begged me to not kill his tree of Ages, then inmmediately pauses, so I assumed he was pausing to talk me into not killing his tree of Ages. Why would I bad manner unpause when Renaud and Eshan were kind to me when I paused the game three times to get things sorted out at home.
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: Peregrine on January 08, 2017, 09:02:56 pm
Unpause = bad manner

i typed in chat "piss" "sec"

cumulo paused many times with NO reason and we respected his pause. but he immiately unpaused me TWO times, that is bad manner.

And then later in the game he asked for a pause and i gave it to him when he had none left

Sad that he suicided me but bad manner unpause should not be tolerated
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: FML|Renaud on January 08, 2017, 10:02:18 pm
Sorry I was a dick in the last quarter of the game, really wanted to get it done asap

To be honest, if I wasn't pressed for time, I would have let the game go on for another hour or two :)
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: ZsSuperCumulo on January 08, 2017, 10:12:09 pm
Quote from: Eshan on January 08, 2017, 09:02:56 pm
Unpause = bad manner

i typed in chat "piss" "sec"

cumulo paused many times with NO reason and we respected his pause. but he immiately unpaused me TWO times, that is bad manner.

And then later in the game he asked for a pause and i gave it to him when he had none left

Sad that he suicided me but bad manner unpause should not be tolerated

I understand where you are coming from Eshan, but right before you paused, you were asking me not to kill your Tree of Ages since it was one of your last hidden buildings; then you immediately paused and typed "piss", but I, while being base wiped by Renaud, saw "pliss" so I interpreted that pause as a moment for manip, but at that point I didn't care since my base was being destroyed by 100 Renaud.

You guys respected my pause when I used them, and even gave me an extra pause since I had to take care of something outside. I really wouldn't unpause to get myself ahead in the game, it was just that particular circumstance where you paused right after you transmuted my tank and I went to your last tree of ages hidden so when you asked me to stop and then immediately paused and type "piss" which to me looked like "pliss" I just ignored it and unpaused.

Lastly, that unpaused had no effect in the outcome of the game. If you had typed moments before "bathroom" I sure as hell wouldn't have unpaused since it was crystal clear that there was no attempt to manip during pause, but unfortunately your pause took place in a moment where Renaud was basically wiping my main and I had just lost everything in a last attempt to win the game, so yeah I really didn't notice "taking a piss" but instead "please let my tree live".
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: ZsSuperCumulo on January 08, 2017, 10:14:10 pm
wp Renaud, Eshan's blindness and delusion over me having the most gold all the time lost him the game. Let's hope we meet again next season :)
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: Peregrine on January 09, 2017, 02:25:40 am
lol? i never thought you had most gold. but you did hoard almost 60k at one point, you both had over 20k more than me. human is hard to beat 1v1 for elf, especially on a huge map. I wanted to help weaken you, but when renaud switched and started to destroy my main, you had a choice. you could either help me and balance the power, OR you could kill me and try to get 1v1 vs 30k renaud. you chose the wrong choice, and then tried to eliminate my last buildings when i constantly asked for peace. your anger cost us both this game, but you were already in semis so i think you just wanted to ruin my chances
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: FML|red7z7 on January 09, 2017, 03:59:06 am
After admin review:

1) ZsSuperCumulo will take a penalty of 4 points for unsportsmanlike unpausing. Unpausing for another player is considered violating that other player's right to pause and is not allowed. FML rules state:
Quote
3.40 Pausing Match

Pausing the match is allowed in consideration with the 3 timeouts per player limit. However, abuse of this system is considered unsportsmanlike and will have consequences.

2) We are updating the rules on pausing, adding 2 sub-sections that will go into effect starting in the next official match:

Quote
3.40b Duration

A player is allowed to pause the game for up to 10 minutes (total across their 3 allowed pauses). After 10 minutes the other players can choose to resume the game at their own discretion without penalty.

3.40c Unpausing

When unpausing, players must get verbal indication from each other player that they are ready to resume, with the exception of players that have been away for over 10 minutes as per 3.40b.

3) Eshan receives a warning for prolonging the game through excessive building hiding after losing all his units.
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: DV- on January 09, 2017, 04:26:01 am
4 points xD

"See we gave penalty points"
"Dont worry cumulo it changes nothing u still in semifinals"
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: letshavesomefun on January 09, 2017, 08:27:41 am
its not the first game cumulo did it this season!

i request to increase the punishment to an amount it actually affects him

or if you wanna stick with -4 as general punishment for unpausing than give him another -4 for the other game he did it this season makeing it -8 in total

if wanted i will get you the replay of that game iam talking about

if you stick with only -4 points in total as punishment for him i would you to explain yourself to the comunity why you picked the highest number of points that wont affect him at all.

he repeatedly shows unsportmanship in many ways towards the comunity

just to name a few examples: makeing us wait 15minutes for him in inhouse game lobby just to crossmap t1 rush another player and leaving after. not 1 but multiple times.

Joining last in fml games kicking another player and refusing to leave to give that player he kicked his slot back

cumulo is the only person in this comunity i would say has no sportmanship at all so please finally punish him for it and not just those shitty 4 points that he doesnt give a fuck at all. make it -8 so it hurts and he maybe finally learns his lesson
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: ZsSuperCumulo on January 09, 2017, 08:39:36 am
Oh well, I have to cross fingers now to make it into semifinals  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: ZsSuperCumulo on January 09, 2017, 09:04:00 am
Well Red, and the rest of admins. I really didn't unpause to get any advantage in the game or with unfair intentions. Like I explained above, I did read pliss when I was killing his last hidden tree of Ages, which again, led me to believe it was a pause to manip me into not killing that tree. Watch any of my games where people pause and I don't unpause just to get ahead ...

In round two when I paused then came back and asked for "ready?" I also read that three people said go, when in fact only two said, but again, it was an error on my part to missread the chat. Something similar happened here, and in both cases the unpause had no effect in the outcome of the game. But again, it is something I would never do with malicious intentions. Furthermore, why would I unpause the game with the intention to get advantage if when I paused three times they let me have those pauses with no problem. It was just that moment that I missread "piss" for "pliss"; watch replay I was attacking his last hidden tree of Ages.

Quite frankly I don't think penalty points are a must do, I may have missbehaved with the unpause, but it was honestly missintentional. In any case give me a warning just like you did to Eshan and this issue will not repeat itself again. Quite frankly it was a missunderstanding of typo during the game, nothing more.
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: junkerzam on January 09, 2017, 11:01:04 am
this deduction may or may not leave cumulo out of finals, any higher deduction would have been extremely likely to strip him of his chances.

cumulo save your farfetched explanations pliss
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: ZsSuperCumulo on January 09, 2017, 11:10:32 am
Thanks for your straightforward reply junkerzam, the one thing I can get out of this game, is to pay close attention to the chat when pausing or unpausing. Nevertheless, it was honestly a misunderstanding of what Eshan typed and not me trying to prevent him from going to the bathroom ...
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: FML|WorpeX on January 09, 2017, 12:05:09 pm
Quote from: ZsSuperCumulo on January 09, 2017, 11:10:32 am
Thanks for your straightforward reply junkerzam, the one thing I can get out of this game, is to pay close attention to the chat when pausing or unpausing. Nevertheless, it was honestly a misunderstanding of what Eshan typed and not me trying to prevent him from going to the bathroom ...

Thank you for being honest and sorry that this action was seen as more bad mannered. In my opinion you are one of the most trustworthy and dedicated members of the community. However, repeated unpausing in the same game and with having done it earlier in the season also isn't something we can just ignore. I believe that you didn't intend to do it to be harmful to Eshan or the game. The penalty points were really more of a warning as it shouldn't impact your playoff chances!

As for Eshan, hiding buildings at the end is definitely bad manner but its also difficult to enforce. There have been plenty of FML games won by players who have hidden buildings and came back. In fact, I lost to DV- doing it to me earlier in the season. Granted, these situations were different in many ways but it really stands as a judgement call on the observers as to whether or not the action was badmanner or not. We can't really make a direct rule regarding the situation.
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: zTsoso on January 09, 2017, 01:01:19 pm
The most important point is that cumulo's unpause did not have any effect on the game. I believe it is important that admins can "forgive" players in some cases like this where the rules are not updated and the violation did not really have any effect on the game. A minor incident that is only worsened by the fact that Cumulo has done the same thing in the past.

Of course unpausing is not acceptable and should be prevented in any case, but sometimes it should actually be acceptable to do so. Say if Eshan paused and started manipulating to save himself. Then it would from my point of view be legitimate to unpause for Cumulo. However, Cumulo's actions cannot be defended on these grounds here since Eshan had not even started to chat or manip. So there is really no defending this.

If Cumulo's unpausing had an effect on the game, like causing Eshan to lose or something along these lines, it would be legitimate to ruin his semi final chances. But in this case I think we should allow him the chance to advance and move on to think about how we can prevent "abuse" in the future.


Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: ZsSuperCumulo on January 09, 2017, 03:02:13 pm
@FML|WorpeX the first time the unpause happened in round 2, I was fighting Persuade, but at the same time (and I wasn't aware of this) Red was fighting Wrecktify. Now, before I unpaused I asked if ready and I saw in chat that all colors were chatting, blue, yellow and pink, and when they said "go" I simply assumed that everyone was ready so I unpaused, but Wrecktify apparently hadn't said go, so he was trying to get the game replayed; however as soon as I unpaused, two seconds later Wrecktify casted stomp from his TC and even won the fight vs Red, the latter did say go when I asked to unpause.

From the game of yesterday I was trying to get his last tree of Ages killed because he transmuted one of my last tanks so when I was killing it with my three heroes, and losing my main at the same time to Renaud, he asked me not to kill his tree of Ages, then pauses and types "piss", which again, believe it or not I understood it as please which is why I thought he was pausing for talking me into not killing his tree of Ages after I warned him not to transmute my tank. And that's why I unpaused the game immediately after he paused, to avoid manipulation during the pause.

In both cases my intentions in the act of unpausing the game had no desire to harm other players or benefit me so that I could win the game. The fact that you are giving -4 pts makes me think that admins find me guilty as charged for something that quite frankly had no effect in the outcome of the game.
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: FML|red7z7 on January 09, 2017, 03:18:46 pm
The previous match where Cumulo unpaused was completely different circumstances. That time, he was the one who paused, so he wasn't denying someone else their pause. He also had no way of knowing that Wreck and myself were in the middle of a battle. Yes, it was careless but admins determined that there was no intention of abuse. He also received a warning. Also rule 3.40c did not exist at the time so there was no explicit violation of the rules.

This time, Cumulo was unpausing (multiple times) for Eshan's pause, clearly with antagonistic intent as he was flaming Eshan at the same time. Whether this was in reaction to reading "pliss" or "piss" is a moot point.

Quote from: zTsoso on January 09, 2017, 01:01:19 pm
Of course unpausing is not acceptable and should be prevented in any case, but sometimes it should actually be acceptable to do so. Say if Eshan paused and started manipulating to save himself. Then it would from my point of view be legitimate to unpause for Cumulo. However, Cumulo's actions cannot be defended on these grounds here since Eshan had not even started to chat or manip. So there is really no defending this.

With the new rules in place, players should never unpause for another player unless that player has been away for longer than 10 minutes, regardless of the circumstances. If you believe that the pause was intended as abuse, for example if the player paused during the middle of a fight that they themselves are fighting, and without valid reason, then you can report that instance to admins after the game and admins will make the call if a penalty is warranted.

Edit: regarding the amount of points deducted, in this case it puts Cumulo at risk of elimination.
Title: Re: M51 Result
Post by: FML|WorpeX on January 09, 2017, 03:57:42 pm
Going to close this thread. I've been listening to arguments on the ruling for a few hours now as it appears there is a lot of discontent about it. At this point, there will be no further changes.

If you feel punishment was not harsh enough, please read @zTsoso 's post. If you feel it should not have happened, @FML|red7z7 post.

Thanks and congratulations to Renaud for an epic victory!!!