FFA Masters League
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: letshavesomefun on September 17, 2016, 12:18:04 pm
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so we had a little discussion at the textbox and i would like to know some more opinions. so just post whos the best currently active player for each race.
Hu:
1.Noexxx
2. Ztsoso
Elf:
1. Under.Sta
2. Jee
Undead:
1. Tyrant
2. Junker
Orc:
1. Shave
2. Fetta
Rdm:
1. Eshan
2. Alien
Alien is rusty otherwise i would chose him over eshan.
And without maga I think junker is the second best undead after tyrant since i still see him ahead of jaod and reinforcement.
I also picked jee over mog or wrecktify since jee even despite beeing rusty still somehow manages to win a lot of games
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Hu:
1. GEASS
2. Noexxx
Elf:
1. Wrecktify
2. FML]Renaud
Undead:
1. Tyrant
2. Magadansky
Orc:
1. Eshan
2. ena1337
Rdm:
1. Alien
2. Junkerzam
Maga can easily handle any one of us even after months of inactivity.
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Hu
1) zTsoso
2) NoeXxX
3) zS.SuperCumulo
Orc
1) Ujustgotshaved
2) b100death ( i never win his - rly )
Und
1) DV
2) Tyrant66
3) XoZ_Magadansky
4) qwest
5) Junkerzam
Ne
1) Goratha => best player NE and BEST FFA player from all players who i see !
2) Mog[skynet]
3) Wrecktify
RDM
1) Seksi-
2) Alien-
3) Junkerzam
4) Slythe
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For skill level that I see as of RIGHT NOW! Not taking into consideration past accomplishments
Hu:
1.Noexxx
2. zTsoso
Elf:
1. Under.Sta
2. j33
Undead:
1. Tyrant
2. Jaod
Orc:
1. Shave
2. Eshan
Rdm:
1. Junkerzam
2. Slythe
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Hu
1) zTsoso
2) NoeXxX
3) zS.SuperCumulo
Orc
1) Ujustgotshaved
2) b100death ( i never win his - rly )
Und
1) DV
2) Tyrant66
3) XoZ_Magadansky
4) qwest
5) Junkerzam
Ne
1) Goratha => best player NE and BEST FFA player from all players who i see !
2) Mog[skynet]
3) Wrecktify
RDM
1) Seksi-
2) Alien-
3) Junkerzam
4) Slythe
that's nice of you to consider Seksi as #1 random player :)
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CUMULO but all games of Seksi- what i see - was games on RDM race )
i hear once - his real race is UD - right ??)
but he rly great also on NE,ORC and not bad hum
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CUMULO but all games of Seksi- what i see - was games on RDM race )
i hear once - his real race is UD - right ??)
but he rly great also on NE,ORC and not bad hum
yes, he is random player, but his best races are ne/und. I think his und was slightly better, but overall well polished ;).
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This list is mostly made up on overall results and consistency throughout this season... I think results + consistency cannot be overstated in regards to a rating of players.
Overall ranking of players that I consider best so far this season (myself not included):
1) Tyrant66 best player this season
2) Under.Sta
3) Noexxx
4) J33
Hu
...
orc:
None of the orcs have impressed me this season.. In truth, all the "top" orc players are levels behind the top players of all other races. If u want some proof of this just look at the result of orc players these past seasons and on ladder! If I have to name one good orc player right now it would probably be Bryan, but he doesn't play FML so that is irrelevant.
Undead:
1) Magadansky
2) Tyrant
3) DV
4) Junkerzam
5) Qwest
6) Jaod
There are several good undead players but only 3 top undead players imo: Magadansky, Tyrant66 and DV. It is hard to pick which of these players are better. We have yet to see them compete in a season together. While I am confident that DV is the best on ladder with Tyrant being a close second (both great micro players), I think Maga is the best overall when it comes to decision making and experience with high skilled FFA/FML matches overall. Tyrant is in this regard a close runner up with equal astonishing skills in aspects of handling teaming and understanding how to win high skilled games. DV has yet to show consistent results in top games of FML (semi finals and finals).
Junkerzam is probably the most consistent undead player outside the top that can compete with the top ud players on a good day. His micro is incredible with undead, and he understands what to do most of the time, but in terms of fighting other races and decision making he is just a level below the top 3.
Qwest could easily be considered a top player skillwise, but he has yet to show his skill translated to FML games. On playffa ladder he was no doubt one of the toughest opponents i've met.
Jaod is improving a lot but lacks still experience in comparison to the top 5. I think his general weakness in comparison to the rest is engagements (fights in general in mirorr and vs other races). This will come with experience
Night elf:
1) Under.Sta
2) J33
3) Wrecktify
4) Renaud
5) Mog
The skill gap between these 5 players is very significant. I have yet to see what Under.Sta can do. Seraph in Matrix made a general quote: "You do not truly know someone until you fight them" - this is also true in FFA and about FML. However, after having watched his replays it seems like his elf style is similare to Seksi's. This is really refreshing to see an elf that likes to do battle. Yet I have to say that his performance hasn't been consistently on a high level throughout his games. I get why some see him as the strongest player in the league with his refreshing fighting style, but I am not as impressed overall. The strongest opponent for me this season is Tyrant66. Under.sta's decision making has not been on point when the games have been slower paced or when teamed. I give under.sta 1st place here but in reality I think j33 could very well be on same level or even 1st.
Wrecktify is probably close behind these two players but needs to shake the rust away and find motivation to win, it seems. I'm sure he can achieve great results if he lets his personal vendettas and side things go :-). Again, I still want to get to know Wrecktify better as a player by fighting him in a high skilled FFA game.
Mog and Renaud are good players but not on top level at present. Renaud has shown some intersting games and great 3v1 fighting but altogether not impressed me this season. Mog has been inactive for a long time and one can clearly see it in his games. I like Mog as a player - his main strength is his intellect and mind, but he really needs to get back shape with his micro management and decision making. He is improving every game, but right now he is not where he used to be.
Random:
1) Alienawareownz
2) Eshan
3) Junkerzam
4) Slythe
Seksi is not active right now so I think it does not make sense to put him on this list. He was considered the strongest rdm player and top player as undead or night elf, but i'll leave him out here because we are talking about active players.
1) Alienawareownz has great micro and is a strong competitor. He has been taken a long break, but his micro is still sharp and he knows how to win games his way. He is a top player in his own right, but not without weaknesses. Still, he is on another level than the rest of the random players. He is probably the only random player that is consistent with high-level play with all races on most maps.
2) Eshan: He is a tough opponent to meet because he knows how to control players with bad scouting or players that misinterpret what is going on in the game. His main skills are not fighting, but rest assured he has much experience and knows how to play different strategies and races to match his opponents. I give Eshan a second place with his strong ffa sense, manip and overall record of good results in FML usually making semi finals and winning quite a lot in FML.
3) Junkerzam: He sometimes performs great (mostly when he randoms undead or night elf (I believe?), but with the other races he is far from top level.
4) Slythe: He makes all the funky hero choices that makes u wonder.. Sometimes he fights very well and his decision making is on point.. Other times he falls apart early and gets dominated. Slythe is an intelligent player that I respect, but he lacks consistency.
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"None of the orcs have impressed me this season.. In truth, all the "top" orc players are levels behind the top players of all other races"
Harsh words from someone who were chased into a mountain base by a single bm soso :D #batblockade
and if i remember correctly in racial cup neither you nor tyrant were able to get a single point for the orc fraction!
But yeah theres no monster like tyrant, under.sta or noe in team orc atm. still no reason to be so arrogant nameing 6 undeads 5 elfs etc. and not wanting to name a single orc. P.S. Bryan is more elf than orc lately
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I do not think it is a matter of arrogance to say that there are no orc players on top level at the moment. None of the orc players have shown consistent results or impressed me (and other top FML players for that matter) in terms of skill.
I know you would like for me to say that you are the best orc player around at present, but I hesitate to give you this credit based on these points:
1) your results in FML
2) your lack of dedication to improve and reluctance to find errors in your game
3) you FFA sense not being on pair with top players
4) your results vs top players
5) Your lack of understanding of the teaming aspect
In other words I think you are lazy and unwilling to do what it takes. You still crave recognition and attention. In your mind you see yourself as a top player that can compete with other top players, but your record does not warrant this. If you want recognition as a top player you need to work on your flaws and dedication as I have said many times over. Prove otherwise by reaching finals next season if you can
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Shave mad because this thread didn't turn into a circle jerk?
Night Elf:
Goratha
Trunkz
Wreck
Goratha and Trunkz are truly fearsome Night Elves. Incredibly tough to face in 1v1. Trunkz has stronger control, but he is also mentally ill and has kind of shitty FFA sense. Still, if he did play FML I think there is a good chance he might've made it to top 10.
Wreck has become sort of like LW. Whimsy and prone to mental breakdowns, but his attack-move abilities are still there.
Human:
Ztsoso is the only truly fearsome human here, because he understands his race and how to abuse it better than any other human.
Orc:
No truly fearsome orcs, but honorable mention to Shave who sometimes beats good players with hero right click on maps like Harvest and Market. This doesn't have a lot to do with skill, but maybe there is some potential in there...
Undead:
Magadansky
DV
Tyrant
For some reason people talk about Junker a lot, and while I think he is a good player, is he definitely not in the top 3 (I'm probably nr. 4 to be honest).
Sometimes our view of certain players are biased because we either see them win vs bad players/good players playing bad and thus overestimate their skill, or lose against good players (and more rarely, bad players playing good for a change), and thus underestimate their skill.
With this in mind, this is the most objective list I can think of.
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nah the reason why there are no top orcs is because:
even if you play well as orc you get zero credit.
example maga 80 food i have nothing left than 3 heroes cuz 1 hour of teaming and i still manage to kill 2 of his heroes and make him tp. (maga also had high lvl heroes) its simply bad play by maga and good play by me. but ofc the only thing i hear is "cheated race" it doesnt mather how good you play as orc you only win cuz "imbalanced race"
and btw i only played one game this season as orc and started sourunded by cumulo and weakundead i think its no shame to lose in that position. but i dont wanna make this personal @ soso
i dont think these guys dase etc. where better than we are now. games simply got more agressive. if htrt griffon rushed one of them he was as dead as iam dead when noe does it to me.
we often get tower/merc rushed by humans, griffon pushed or we have 80 food of magas undead imbalance in our base at 10minute mark. in solo orcs win their games by keeping the opponent from lvling but in ffa you are not supposed to bm harras maga from start to end to keep his heroes away from lvling so hard. you might win your 1n1 then but lose the following 2n1 anyway.
Iam writing this because i would like people to stop teaming orcs to death. my past 15 inhouse games were like: a) i lose my 1n1 and noone helps me or b) i win my 1n1 and get teamed to death afterwards. the only exception i can think off was the game with geasss mog and tocka yesterday. mostly because tocka isnt blinded by his hate against orcs like the older ffa players.
And btw apologies tocka i knew mog was way stronger yet i attacked you cuz i was mad that you stopped me from hitting him. it was a stupid move by me that ruined what couldve been a nice game
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to get back to the topic:
why you picked geass first cumulo? iam curious because in my opinion the obv choices wouldve been soso noe or you. but geasss is also not bad enough for you to be trolling since hes a strong player. so what makes him superior in your opinion?
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Interesting topic shave, maybe don't steer it into a discussion why orcs are imbalanced. But on topic, I agree with Soso that there are not any orcs at the moment that are on par with players like Ludix, Ostone, Sk2Flash, Nline to name a few of the top orcs who are inactive. The only expection would be Alien but I will class him as a Random player.
Human:
1. Cumulo
2. Soso
3. Noexx
Cumulo and soso are basically as good imo, I'll put Cumulo as #1 based on gutfeeling from who I rather not face in an early 1v1. Noexx has atleast as good micro, but lacks the composure and decision making of the top two.
Undead:
1. Magadansky
2. Tyrant66
3. DV
Apparently DV is active then? He is probably the best mechanical player here, but isn't as good as Maga and Tyrant in finding ways to endure and secure wins in long games. Tyrant beat Maga two seasons ago when it mattered, but I still fear the bulgarian's patented crypt/garg push more than anything else in the scene so I'll put him as #1.
Night elf:
1. UndeR.STa
2. Wrecktify
3. j33
4. Mog/Renaud
UndeR.STa has shown us newcomers to FFA scene that he is a fearsome first opponent, an unusual trait for night elfs at the moment. From what I have seen he has good game sense too, he therefore seems to be the strongest night elf at the moment. Wrecktify also possess good micro and superior game knowledge, but seems to be a bit out of shape. At the bottom of the list are three FML champions who rarely rely on their micro but find ways to the end phase through good decision making. I have put j33 higher because of his better form/results this season.
Orc:
I agree that there are no top tier orcs right now. The self acclaimed orcs are not better than most of the Random players this season I feel, so I will not include any names here.
Random:
1. Alien
2. Eshan
3. Slythe
Alien has only his mind as a weakness and is prone to rage as he gets teamed. Other than that, solid micro and game sense with all races and an uncontested first place at the moment. Eshan and Slythe are pretty equal in my opinion, but the results speak in Eshan's favor and also I have seen him play all races, cannot say the same for Slythe. Special mention to Slythe though for pulling off cool hero combinations to good effect.
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I won't count players like htrt, seksi or Ludix who I didn't see play for ages
Humans
1. Ztsoso
2. Noexxx
Big Gap
3. Geass
4. shave when in good shape
5. cumulo, ajikaiii
Undeads
1. Tyrant
2. Maga
3. DV
4. Jaod
5. Junkerzam
6. Qwest
7. Tleilaxu
Orc
1. Shave
2. Nline
3. zTsoso
4. Maybe b100
lack of good orcs
Elf
1. Dovekie
2. Under.sta
3. Trunks
4. j33
5. Junkerzam
6. Wrecktify (but like #8 or #9 in terms of bot skills)
7. Me
8. Mog
9. Renaud
:icon_wink:
EDIT :
i forgot rdm players
1. Alien
2. Eshan
and that's all, others aren't decent enough with all races to be considered top rdm players
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Since the question is about CURRENT player (and thanks to everyone who has voted for me but I am quite inactive atm), my ranking would look something like that (based on my limited knowledge past few months though):
Human:
1. Soso (he learns slowly but he learns regardless and has managed to shake off a lot of his flaws in his gameplay)
2. Cumulo (consistent player, though with questionable decision-making from time to time)
3. Noexxx (great micro but inferior ffa sense compared to the other 2)
Orc:
As everyone said, the orcs are quite bad in these times (no orcs like yz, nline or ludix). Shave is self-proclaimed best orc but his lack of game vision certainly doesnt put him on par (he only knows how to abuse item stacking and imba orc hero hexastomp). I would rank certain random players here as best orcs, like Alien or Seksi (if he still plays though).
Undead:
I havent seen much undead games, but based on performance in FML, I'd rank Tyrant as first and Jaod as 2nd. 3rd is quite difficult to determine.
NE:
1. j33, just because suomi brother and certainly one of the most consistent players there is.
2. Under.sta (though the limited games cannot point for a consistency)
3. Wreck (he just rusty :D)
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Thank you for kind words everyone who listed me. Its true I didnt have much motivation to win this season, and blowing people up has become more fun. I will try to get some practivce in next season. Also Maga please come back its hard to p4k without you!
Undead:
Tyrant (current player - I guess. I think I could stomp him, but he won a season and is doing good this time around? I feel like Jaod is probably close.)
Maga (All time) - only player who can do this when he is getting 3v1ed:
Human:
Cumulo (current player) - plays on a ti-85 with a 14.4 connection from machu pikachu but still manages to beat everyone. except when he doesnt. but i think when he loses he is sort of chosing to lose. also he could have probably elevated Peru to a Zeroth-world country if he stopped spending 80 hours a week on WC3 and making memes.
MYSELF AHAHAHAHAA (all time only 2x hu champ whaaaaaaaaaat?) edit - wait target also 2x hu champ. ok so me and target tied for best hu all time WHAAAAAAAAAAT???
Orc:
Seksi (Current player) - edit#2 wait so seksi isnt really playing. OK so no good orcs right now. Probably all of them are spray-and-pray with auto shotgun eg: mass bats and hope for the best.
Ludix (all time) - He didnt play long but I feel like none of our orcs do. One of those players you want to rush out immediately before he gets trip 5 or higher, cause if he does you probably lose.
Elf:
j33 (current player) - basically a crappier version of me. 50% better macro, 75% worse fighting skills. Flies under the radar cause hes norweigian or some crap.
Renaud (all time) - i dont know if I really believe this. he almost lost to ugri in the finals, whiich makes me think hes probably not the best all time. OK you know what forget it I will list myself again AHAHAHAHAHAH
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LOL Wreck you are back! :icon_lol:, I never liked family guy, as a matter of fact, never really watched it, but this video seems to fit Maga pretty well :icon_razz:.
LOL Texas Instruments :D, more like T410s, but yeah kinda shitty with 210ms. Dude stick around, I think season 24 begins in november :)
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Wreck we both know I'm the best NE player current and all time. It's too bad Blizzard decided to give elves chims and hippos as their only unit though, kinda unfair.
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Human:
This is tough, since Noexxx is the toughest opponent you can meet in the first 1vq, but he has not yet the macroskills needed to become #1. However, this top 3 is very tight and change depending on the shape of the day.
1. soso
2. Noexxx
3. Cumulo
Elf:
1. Under.Sta
2. Hungover Under.Sta
3. Wreck
Undead:
1. Tyrant
2. Maga
Orc:
1. Me
2. Alien
3. Shave
One thing that is true regarding the earlier debate is the fact that the top level Orc players are not on the same level as the players from other races, when you look at achievements and results. I have my own theory about this, but it will be a separate thread.
Random:
1. Alien
2. Junker (if ud or elf)
3. Slythe
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Why isn't anyone mentioning Ena1335 as top 5 orc, He did very well this season, considering the opponents he faced. I mean Renaud in R1, Mog in R2 and Tyrant in R3.
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Human: Soso has a slight edge but these 3 players aren't only top humans, They're also on top of the ffa world
1. soso
2. Noexxx
3. Cumulo
Elf: Under.sta has good micro/good ffa sense plus he usues DH (sorry wreck)
1. Under.Sta
2. wreck
3. j33
Undead: I'd have a slot for Maga if he was actice
1. Tyrant
2. jaod
Orc:
1. Shave
2.
3.
Random: Junker and Eshan have similar styles, junker slightly better micro and Eshan Better game sense. Seksi come back! We need more random players to be feared!
(had to change my rankings I completely forgot about you eshan)
1. Alien
2. Junker
2.Eshan
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I get surprised by how CONSISTENTLY supercumulo gets underestimated, in games and even in these threads.
Current players + all time at the end:
HU:
1. Cumulo
2. soso
3. noexxx
Alltime: Target (dominated the best players with only TWO heroes)
Elf:
1. Under
2. J33
3. Mog - I put him over Wreck cause of this seasons performance
Alltime (F-L-Y - just go back and watch)
Und:
1. Tyrant
2. Alien - I will use random players if I think they are top with that race
3. Junker
Alltime - Maga (DV doesn't have the legacy)
Orc:
1. Shave
2. Eshan (I think I'm pretty good with orc)
3. b1000death (sry fetta, but crying and teaming is not how orcs should play)
Alltime: Daselend or Darknesscalls, hard to say
Random:
1. Alien
2. Eshan (I'll put alien over myself cause he's truly fearsome with some races)
3. Slythe
Alltime: Seksi
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Interesting topic. IMO the level of play in FFA reached its peak around seasons 15-18, a LOT of top players no longer playing anymore. I've been around since season 10 (I think?) so Ill a little more about players I view as all-time greats, considering I've seen A LOT of them. But nonetheless, here are my thoughts:
Human
Current
1. Soso
2. Cumulo
3. Noexxx
This is close, soso and cumulo are extremely similar players overall and both have a title. I think noexxx is on the same level, but lacks a title
All-Time
1. HTRT
2. Lightweight
3. Soso
IMO Lightweight is the best FML player ever without a title. HTRT could easily be argued as the most skilled FFA player of all-time. The results speak for themselves, and if you have ever played him, you would know what I mean. Both in terms of micro and game sense, he watch absolute top-notch. I think soso's consistency and the title he has puts him on this level as well.
Elf
Current
1. J33
2. Understa
3. Wreck
Understa has performed the best this season, but I'd still take j33 over him in a FFA game. His game sense is perhaps the best of any player in FML, and his micro is good enough to hold his own against anyone. Wreck is great but a bit out of shape now and Understa is dominate but will need to prove himself on the big stage before he's #1
All-Time
1. Wreck
2. Renaud
3. J33
Honorable mention to Mog, who is a close #4. All of these players have an FML title, and having played all of these players when they were at their best, I think Wreck slightly edges out the others but they are all extremely difficult opponents who have mastered playing elf in FFA.
Orc
Current
1. Eshan
2. Fetta
3. Shave
I'm really surprised no one has picked Eshan here, he's had great results this season mostly winning as orc. Fetta and Shave are fine players as well, though as everyone has stated this is definitely the weakest group.
All-Time
1. Ludix
2. Nline
3. Lightweight
You really don't understand orc imba until you have faced on of these beasts in FFA. These are the kind of players you had to 2v1 or else you were screwed. Ludix was one of the most dominate players ever in FML in his relatively brief FFA career, making 2 (or 3?) consecutive semi finals appearances and at least one finals appearance.
Undead
Current
1. Tyrant
2. Jaod
3. Junker
These 3 players are relatively close, Tyrant gets the edge because he tends to have the best game sense and stays calm though Jaod might be the best microer.
All-Time
1. Maga
2. Seksi
3. Yane
Maga is probably considered to be the best FML player of all time. Consistent winner, 3 titles, top tier micro and game sense. Absolutely no weaknesses. Seksi, like Lightweight, is one of the best players to never win a title, and while he considers himself a random player I think he usually went undead in most important matches. Despite a very short career, I think Yane deserves top recognition due to his great results and dominating play.
Random
Current
1. Junker
2. Alien
3. Eshan
Junker probably the best microer here, I think Alien is actually better overall but doesn' tplay much anymore. Eshan is great with orc/elf/hu, never saw him play undead though.
All-Time
1. Seksi
2. Persuade
3. Alien
IMO Seksi was top tier as ud/elf/orc and very solid with human. Absolutely capable of beating top tier opponents with any of the 4 races. Persuade was a true random player from several seasons ago who also played all four races extremely well and had great micro, anyone who faced him im sure would agree that he deserves recognition.