FFA Masters League
General => News => Topic started by: Persuade on October 26, 2013, 04:47:31 pm
-
:FMLN:
At this time we would like to remind everyone that cheating of any kind will not be tolerated in FML.
It has come to our attention that during the round 4 game P45, Humans7ar admitted to stream watching, which influenced the outcome of the game.
Because of this, Humans7ar will receive 0 points for the game and will be banned for the duration of the season, including subbing any future games in Season 17.
We here at FML have a zero tolerance policy towards cheating. If we catch anyone cheating in any event, including side events as well as the main season, we will be forced to remove you from FML.
-
poor humanstar, its too tempting to watch live a game being streamed whn its available
ban is very extreme
-
So its basically like he was maphacking, what would be the ban for that?
-
poor humanstar, its too tempting to watch live a game being streamed whn its available
ban is very extreme
Look at it from our point of view. This is a small community based league for a 12 year old video game. We have a lot of trust in our players and expectations to come with playing in our league. What he did is no different than maphacking, and I think that having a streamer is not tempting at all unless you are the type of person to already cheat to begin with.
It angers me on a personal level that he thinks we all cheat, and I know it pisses off a lot of other players too, especially if people like humie assume that we also stream cheat.
While we are disappointed it came to this, we are going to be much stricter on streamers from now on to ensure it doesn't happen again.
-
It's not too tempting, that's like saying map hacking is too tempting. We trust our players to play a fair match, and when one of them breaks our trust they have to be punished. We do not believe that humanstar had any malicious intent behind his actions, however he broke both our trust, his fellow competitors trust, and the level playing field.
It is very similar to map hacking, though perhaps a little less malicious in intent. Map hacking results in a ban.
-
Didn't really help him much though. Problem can be solved with delay for stream.
-
I think this is a very bad thing to announce, instead of preventing cheating, you probably gave a lot of people new idea of how to cheat. Careful, this could backfire.
personally, i never thought of using streams as cheating tool, now ill remember it automatically the next game when its gonna be tough.
ofc im not gonna cheat, but lots of people will...
my advice - delete this thread.
-
I think this is a very bad thing to announce, instead of preventing cheating, you probably gave a lot of people new idea of how to cheat. Careful, this could backfire.
personally, i never thought of using streams as cheating tool, now ill remember it automatically the next game when its gonna be tough.
ofc im not gonna cheat, but lots of people will...
my advice - delete this thread.
We appreciate this concern, however anyone who watched the game will already be exposed to the idea, since humie basically says everyone does it already.
-
Also any player has the option of choosing to not have observers/streamers for this very case.
If stream observing is a concern, you just need to inform us prior and we will make it happen.
-
Yes Temptin but how do u know if others players do that, humi just was too inocent or honest to say it, in my opinion quest if not watched the stream at least was listening is my opinion im not confirm nothing. the solution will be delayed stream.
-
poor humanstar, its too tempting to watch live a game being streamed whn its available
ban is very extreme
oh cheating/hacking is acceptable, but calling an idiot an idiot is the most heinous crime ever, and those people should be banned? smh
i know 20 people for 100% sure(that are remaining) who would not even be tempted to stream cheat. Do not know about the rest, but any that i am unsure of have 0% chance of winning anyway so it should not be too big of an issue.
-
just gave my pov and wanted to give humanstar my support
-
To have stream prohibited if players want isn't a good decision, i stream for russian community (and even other countries watch) to promote FML and when ppl are gathered and there is no stream as announced, it's not fair for them either, and has bad inpact.
To have stream delayed is good in solo, but will not be much helping in such long FFA games, where situation could be almost the same during a long time.. anyway it can be at least something.
Btw, Humi spoke Deutsh and did not translate it to english, why to do that.
-
Hahhaha its not a Joke right? But still funny i will answer but not in the early morning ;-)
-
Didn't really help him much though. Problem can be solved with delay for stream.
it was delayed i think, and the maximum delay you can set is 15minutes.
-
I'm so disappointed by humanstar. Never expected him to do that, especially in a game with me. Shame on him!
-
ban again? only because i was truly and told ya i watched stream before i leaved wow
and why u blame me? its not my fault its yours because everybody can watch the stream and noone will tell you... i am against cheating too but stream abuse can do everybody normally and its your fault so entban me plz ! or would i out anyway?
-
ban again? only because i was truly and told ya i watched stream before i leaved wow
and why u blame me? its not my fault its yours because everybody can watch the stream and noone will tell you... i am against cheating too but stream abuse can do everybody normally and its your fault so entban me plz ! or would i out anyway?
We do appreciate your honesty, which is why this is not a lifetime ban, and only a season ban. Your logic is flawed, just because one person maphacks, why don't you maphack?
We are a small community that plays a 12 year old game for fun.
We know people can cheat, however we take the safe assumption that our members are not cheaters, I hope this was an isolated incident, but to be cautious we are now going to be stricter to prevent these kinds of things from happening.
-
I agree 100% with Persuade here. I have no problem with Hustar, but cheating is never acceptable, even if "other people do it". If others ARE doing it, that is indeed a shame, and I think further measures will have to be taken in the future to help prevent such easy access to cheating. But I also agree with Duck (can't believe I said that!), most of the people left in the league would never cheat. And I think that is important because it is how FML continues to roll on after such a long time. We are a community of players who play because we love the game, the community, and the competition. Cheating of any form dismantles all 3 of those in some way.
-
ban again? only because i was truly and told ya i watched stream before i leaved wow
and why u blame me? its not my fault its yours because everybody can watch the stream and noone will tell you... i am against cheating too but stream abuse can do everybody normally and its your fault so entban me plz ! or would i out anyway?
Pathetic excuses that you bring up here. You cheat on purpose, defend yourself and blame the others. It's like i would use Maphack in a game and blame the developers for inventing Maphack.
You can be proud that FML Admins gave u a harmless one season ban for cheating.
Instead of helping this community out, u abused it and like i already mentioned before, you blame the others which is just retarded. You could have told them that theres no delay on the stream and leave afterwards.
-
ban again? only because i was truly and told ya i watched stream before i leaved wow
and why u blame me? its not my fault its yours because everybody can watch the stream and noone will tell you... i am against cheating too but stream abuse can do everybody normally and its your fault so entban me plz ! or would i out anyway?
Pathetic excuses that you bring up here. You cheat on purpose, defend yourself and blame the others. It's like i would use Maphack in a game and blame the developers for inventing Maphack.
You can be proud that FML Admins gave u a harmless one season ban for cheating.
Instead of helping this community out, u abused it and like i already mentioned before, you blame the others which is just retarded. You could have told them that theres no delay on the stream and leave afterwards.
I was going to make a ragey Wreck-like post but WaN summed up my feelings pretty accurately here.
-
ban again? only because i was truly and told ya i watched stream before i leaved wow
and why u blame me? its not my fault its yours because everybody can watch the stream and noone will tell you... i am against cheating too but stream abuse can do everybody normally and its your fault so entban me plz ! or would i out anyway?
From a conversation with a serial killer:
- Why did you kill this woman?
- Well, I have a hands and a knife. So I just stab her. After all, anyone can do it.
:icon_eek: Holy fuck.
-
I know for a fact other players do, I actually said this a while ago... I don't get it why ruin the game. I'm not going to point fingers but in my 2nd game I know someone was watching stream and I think it should be removed ASAP. Wait for the replay.
-
the fact that there are real time streams going of FML games is baffling to me. This should absolutely not be allowed, 30 min delay at least, or even 1 hour. Even 1 hour could fuck up someone if there is a stand off and they are hiding units or gold. I would trust old school people not to abuse a stream, but the league is bigger than before these days.
-
the fact that there are real time streams going of FML games is baffling to me. This should absolutely not be allowed, 30 min delay at least, or even 1 hour. Even 1 hour could fuck up someone if there is a stand off and they are hiding units or gold. I would trust old school people not to abuse a stream, but the league is bigger than before these days.
This comment must be a troll, "30 or even 1 hour delay" HAHAHAHAHA
-
Honestly, I would never ever ever allow streaming of league games (or even obs except moderators), but since people are being babies and have to obs/stream, measures have to be taken.
There is absolutely no reason to watch a game live, how is replay any worse?
-
I think Ebo is right, but 30-60 minutes aint enough in my eyes. Admins should allow people to watch games after 10-15 years on VHS as earliest date.
If there wouldnt be streamers, the community would go down tomorrow. And 1 hour delay? thats impossible since u can delay 15 min max i think and how is it fun to watch a game when its not live.
Im curious how you are going to give farseer a third spring in fml games Ebo :icon_wink:
-
a lot of the community actually depend on streams, most of the streamers pull in decent numbers, especially in the russian community.
Watching the game live is always funner usually because you can chat with observers and appreciate/understand the players decisions, as I'm fairly sure nobody watches replays at 1x speed.
a 15 minute delay is more than sufficient, despite this isolated incident, we still trust the members of FML as a whole not to cheat.
-
Honestly, I would never ever ever allow streaming of league games (or even obs except moderators), but since people are being babies and have to obs/stream, measures have to be taken.
There is absolutely no reason to watch a game live, how is replay any worse?
OKAY
-
Sorry for my bad english, but i have some things about it:
15 mins delay = no communication with viewers, less fun for everyone.
Starcraft 2 = no delay
Dota 2 = no delay
CS = no delay
Warcraft 3 almost no delay
Watch stream same as use map hack, if someone open stream, he can download maphack too, nothing different. Rule about 15min delay = big mistake for every streamers. 5 min delay is very bad too!
As bonus: 15 min delay = NOT LIVE STREAM, so, it`s not fun, as fun to see it in LIVE.
IMHO.
-
I agree all tournaments even with big prizes run in real time
-
Sorry for my bad english, but i have some things about it:
15 mins delay = no communication with viewers, less fun for everyone.
Starcraft 2 = no delay
Dota 2 = no delay
CS = no delay
Warcraft 3 almost no delay
Watch stream same as use map hack, if someone open stream, he can download maphack too, nothing different. Rule about 15min delay = big mistake for every streamers. 5 min delay is very bad too!
As bonus: 15 min delay = NOT LIVE STREAM, so, it`s not fun, as fun to see it in LIVE.
IMHO.
I dont get it , whats better when its set without delay? How can you have more fun if its not delayed?
-
- WOW, nice moment, BM dead.
Streamer answer:
- yes, it`s really good!
I can speak with streamer in chat, it`s new in stream-communications.
_____________________________
Every pro tournaments without delay.
_____________________________
I saw ~200 football matches in LIVE. I saw 0 matches in the record. Because LIVE always more fun.
If you wanna test it: join to site: sc2tv.ru , regist there and try to speak with streamer, 80% streamers will answer you, and it's really beautifull! 15% don`t know english, only 3-5% without communication, and it`s bad streamers.
Good stream:
- Live,
- Communication with fans,
- Good sound,
- Good video,
- Good voice.
-
Its without a doubt a controversial topic. As someone who has done casting before, having interaction with the people who are watching the stream makes it a lot of fun so I do agree on that. However, very few people seem to ask questions anyway so I don't think thats a huge loss.
At this point, I think we should try out a 15minute delay minimum on streams. We will monitor viewership and see if it makes a big impact on quality and interaction. If that doesn't work, its very possible that we will have to look into other avenues to find a suitable solution for us. We have been relying completely on player trust since we started the streaming services, and now that that trust is broken, its going to make it very difficult to return to no delay streams.
15 mins delay = no communication with viewers, less fun for everyone.
Starcraft 2 = no delay
Dota 2 = no delay
CS = no delay
Warcraft 3 almost no delay
Heres the difference though: In SC2/WC3 Solo you can't really take your attention off of the game when you're playing. There is very little down time and breaking concentration and taking your eye off of the game is more determental then it is helpful to see the stream. There is minor downtime in Dota2/CS but I don't really know how beneficial it is for them to look at the stream. I'm sure it helps though. Not sure how the admins handle that situation.
As far as WC3 FFA goes, there can be vast expanses of downtime. Sometimes upwards of an hour if you're in that bad of a standoff. Looking at a stream will give you the information you need to end said standoff - opponents army count/resources/hero levels and army location. The benefits FAR outweigh the risks in looking.
-
It is such an important person, and because of a hacker need to change everything?
Live stream = GOOD system. Delay = hate every streamers, because delay make good for 1-2 people, and bad to other fans. In Dota2 = 100k fans, In sc2 = 20-30k fans in one stream.
Good streams = more people return to warcraft and play with us.This is much better than the 20 people who already tired of warcraft and they play out of habit, and try to find the fun in maphack.
-
In solo, everything is so mathematical and predictable, players already know what to expect, it all goes down to micro. In FFA, you never know who's hiding what, and shit can be hanging for hours. It's absolutely way different in FFA.
Anyways, as long as any player in a game can ask for no obs/no stream, I think it's cool.
-
football is still popular because of million fans in the world!
SOLO game: hidden expand, no? Surprised push at tier1, no? 1 good creep-jack, no?
-
I am locking this thread because it has derailed from the original discussion.
Thank you all for your responses