Long 3 way against towering night elf with level 10 tinker versus 3 level 10 heroes orc heroes and me. The right side of the map was left forgotten so I charmed all the creeps and won!
Lusted chims with high level DR, Alchemist, MK, and breakers. Level 6+ heroes were dying in a single bolt. Starting race was elf.
Base in the same game. Unbreakable!
The other side.
Ents + Treants! (went on to win this game with mass hunts versus mass tp + tank/gryphon from another human)
Yeah occasionally elves will use beast against human and they are often wins! You gotta love the beast master.
Okay I fixed all the links (use the google drive in my first post) and added like 10 more replays.
Replay #14 Kind of just conquered my side of the map with ease, made a 130 food army of chippo + summons, killed lightweight through non verbal opportunism teaming, and then just stampeded/volcanoed the last elves base + ground army.
Replay #15 Level 10 Beastmaster + level 10 Firelord. Fire Lord is actually a very nice hero to have once you get him past level 8 . This game features multiple dual AMS volcano + stampede action versus ground armies.
*Replay #16 Nice game with a lot of fighting against a hit running undead, who I ultimately kill when he has 3 high level heroes and mass fiendshee, with a beast master, fire lord, low level potm, and a mountain giant, a dryad and 2 hippo riders. The rest of my army was normal hippogryphs against no air.
*Replay #17 3 way against maga and another undead. Teamed out maga after he played hit and run with both of us for 20 minutes and we got annoyed, then it came down to a big 100 food battle. 130 food army of mass hippo/hipporider/dott/bear hawk/bear/quill/lavaspawn and howl vs 100 food of gargs. Pretty much unbeatable. Also shows that I get a free frostwyrm/destroyer or garg kill everytime maga hit and ran me because of hipporider + quill + dryad.
Replay #18 On monsoon. Started creeping big red creeps at like 6 minutes into game, with archers quills and purge gnoll. Got creep jacked, then all of a sudden the warden shows up out of my Alter, probably looking for illidan or something and I tell her to go back home but she didn't. Just chippo'd everyone to death with Beast master and warden, and summons.
Replay #19 Chippo-dott-rider'd everyone with summons and stampedes and eventually double starfalls.
Replay #20 This game gave me an idea. It would be fun to run around with an invis potion on the BM and the POTM and through scouting, find when two people are gonna fight and then stick yourself to the side of the fight and double AMS starfall both of them.
*Replay #21 A good example of how to play this strategy and how to play this map. It works really well on spider falls because of the chokes. Funny moment when an orc TP's while I am double starfalling him with some chims, and he loses ~35 food in the 3 seconds it takes for his tp to go. Towering certain expos is good even for elf.
*Replay #22 BM + POTM with nice mixed army all game of dryads dotts mountain giants and chims against a human and a couple orcs. This map is good for this strat as you can get auras at the marketplaces and mana for your beast and spell shields. Was a GG.
I'm happy that someone else is actually trying them out with an honest attempt to see if they are good. I'll DL the rep and watch it tonight.
Looked in my replay folder and found a replay that was basically a 1v1 between me and Asha(undead) that lasted a while. Here you can see their use versus gargs, and that it actually does work pretty well.
Username: Dovekie -Nationality: USA -Main Race: Night Elf -E-mail address:westonbryce990@yahoo.com -Other Contact (Skype - msn - aim - gchat): -Accomplishments: Lagged out of more bot games than everyone in the top 20 combined (does that count?) .Top 3 bot ladder through game massing. 124-147 now. Through luck and manipulation I have beat most everyone here one time or another in random 8 mans... Been top 10 rank in west ladder a few times (not very noteworthy ) -Please give us an idea of your availability over the next 3 months: Pretty busy with school and work but I will have time here and there to make it work, especially on weekends. - Are you willing to check the website regularly to schedule your games ? Yeah - How/Where did you hear about FML? Probably heard about it a while ago from WCR or something, but more recently because of bot-hosting games.
Oh and my internet should be better now I hope as I am not living at home and am paying a pretty penny for my own, through which I will connect with an actual cable and not unstable frequencies. But we will see once its installed (tomorrow at 3!)
Yes he means 450. You can use http://classic.battle.net/war3/races.shtml which can be wrong for certain things, but it is almost always updated, or you can use the world editor. I am getting the dps through math.
I would say their movement speed is about even or maybe a little in favor of the wind riders due to endurance aura, but its not a noticeable difference, unless you add in blood lust, in which case everything is faster anyway.
And yeah dismounting removes every debuff, because it creates two units. Its nice after you tp because you can instantly get rid of slow/faerie fire, etc. And there are times when you can dismount in the middle of the battle, best right after nova or haze, and your riders are mid hp, you dismount and heal scroll, and they will be full hp and not cold/debuffed anymore, with added full-hp archer support down below.
I would probably wait till after breath of fire hits before I dismounted, at least if I had a heal scroll, I think it would be more effective that way.
As far as killing tanks, chims are better..................................almost always, but here is some math.
I did the math with a food per food basis in mind, where chims count as 4 food, so the dps calculations are more equal with that in mind.
Chimera- 10.6dps Hipprider- 8dps
Under the same night elf buffs as before, chims do 10.6 dps to 3-3 tanks. Remember though, that they have a 2.5 CD, so really they all do 25-30 a hit, and then have to wait ~3 seconds to do it again, which is nice for hit and runs, but is thrawted by bolt/slow. Hipporiders attack at a very constant rate, faster than bloodlusted pace, so if you have 10 hipporiders the tank will take about 7-8 seconds to die with no hero or other unit support. Chims also have splash, witch can help a lot. When defending, hipporiders can work pretty well with a panda and a few ancients, then you can safely kill anything a human has unless its 40 gryos, but when attacking, you need something else to kill the tanks.
I learned late in my warcraft 3 career that hippogryph riders actually do very solid damage. But it wasn't until I started trying to get ridiculous 4v4 RT records that I finally developed a strategy that would interestingly enough win me just about any game. Tinker mass archers to hippogryph riders with a panda and potm (had never heard of mog at this point, but I assume he ran across the same stroke a genius). They weren't just good, but too good. I've managed to, at times when my micro is up, replicate its power in ffa games using a warden instead of tinker, and it's shown to be quite powerful. I just wanted to run some numbers by you guys and we can discuss
All numbers are calculated with 3 attack upgrades.
Wind Rider-24.5dps Hipporider-23.6dps
Very similar, within 1dps of each other. Lets note here that the Wind Rider has almost double the damage and the Hipporider has almost double the speed. 49vs26 damage and 2vs1.1 second CD's.
This next calculation is with the level 5 aura heroes counted in, using level 2 endurance aura and level 3 trueshot aura.
Wind Rider-26.9dps Hipporider-30.7dps
The extra damage from trueshot starts to make hipporiders look more desirable. Next is with 20%kodos and roar added in.
Wind Rider-32.3dps Hipporider-38.4dps
Hipporiders are now beating Wind Riders by a more considerable margin. You really need to try them out to know how much damage they actually do, and feel it for yourself. But I forgot about bloodlust, right? We can factor that in now, and it comes out to 45.2dps. Holy moly they pack a punch, now beating their night elf counter parts by 6.8dps. Persuade brought this up to me in another thread a while ago and it kind of just didnt sound right to me, as I have used them both extensively and maybe I was just wrong in game and that Wind riders truly do more damage. Then I started to realize that whatever I was attacking with my Hipporiders was almost always faerie fired, as I usually have 3-4 dotts and at least one in my Hipporider control group. And that was my missing link. Orc gets casters to buff the attack speed of their units, and night elf gets casters to nerf the armor of their enemies. Same mana costs, same mana pools, same food, same amount of casters, just that dotts can fly and actually do damage. Well, I calculated it in and it feels much more accurate now to what I encounter in-game.
Wind Rider-45.2dps Hipporider- 47.6dps
The Hipporider, yes, comes out on top, but, with envenemed spears, wind riders come out on top against non-light armor units, but that needs to be factored in after armor type and armor amounts are calculated in, and the type of unit. Basically, in the end, they are about the same as far as dps is concerned, assuming the elf gets a potm and uses dotts (many elves).
What does this mean? I hope this is a surprise to a lot of people, as I feel like I am the only one save a few who actually bothers with that tech path.
But what other differences are there between the units. Wind riders hp: 570 Hipporider hp: 765
Wind rider range: 450 Hipporider range: 700!
Wind rider armor: 6 Hipporider armor:7
Wind rider cost: 255G and 40L Hipporider cost: 290G and 30L
Hipporiders, at slightly more of a gold cost, come out on top in armor, having spectacular, sniper like range, and ~200 more hp.
Survivabilty? Wind riders get spirit link, heal wave, and stomp. Hipporiders get to attack from a much safer range, have more health, and have haze to protect them. In my experience, they can both be tough to kill and easy to kill, but the survivabilty is very close. Hipporiders can also dismount, taking double advantage of scrolls and only using half the food to bats.
So this isn't exactly to theory craft who would win in a fight, elf or Orc with these armies (I vote Orc because of hexastomp), but to theory craft in what situations would it be beneficial for elf to use hipporiders? Night elves, would you add stronger, sniper-like Wind riders to your army in any circumstance that you can think of? How about versus undead? Against human? Against elf? Against Orc? I have things to say on it (with actual play to back it up), but what do you think?
dovekie the trash noob who tried cross map tier 1 rushing me with bm/mass hunts archers and ends up getting trashed.
no one wants to take your advice youve playd nearly 300 games and wont even be cracking the 50% mark any time soon
Think you got the wrong idea of me. Picture a guy on a kitchen table with a laptop with terrible internet connection, often eating something while playing, with a tv to the side and people running around, not always particularly caring too much about what is gonna happen, especially if I was walking cross map with archers and hunts(though those days are over ), something a noob probably wouldn't do. I even remember the game that you speak of, I am pretty sure I got intercepted about 3 times on the way to your base, which I went to because everyone else was trash and I just wanted to to take you out early.
Plus, I wrote this before, or within a couple days of the bot ladder coming out, when literally EVERYONE was trash. I didnt even re-read what I wrote but my opinions are probably different now. If you actually saw how many games I have lagged out of (probably ~30), or how many games I have used something like a solo pitlord (probably another ~30), or how many I just left to go do something with the wedding or something similar my rec would be at least a little better. At least I am here experimenting with new things, finding out what else is good, and a lot of what isn't, while you are busy trolling and doing the same thing that has been done for the last 8 years.
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. This game features multiple dual AMS volcano + stampede action versus ground armies.
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), something a noob probably wouldn't do. I even remember the game that you speak of, I am pretty sure I got intercepted about 3 times on the way to your base, which I went to because everyone else was trash and I just wanted to to take you out early.