Nooblex's Guide to FFA

[FML|Renaud]

wait this could have been the cute thing you posted in the announcement1 :P

[Pinballmap]

Jesus Fucking Christ 118 Pages! Well done sir !Ill have a closer look at this guide soon.

[Lightweight!]

Good job at nooblex. I just took a little glance on it and already liked the things about ud/elf which will improve my game against them. Perfect guide for people that need to develope in ffa to get better. Big respect for your work and as DukeNukemForever your guide is released after centuries 

[FML|Mage]

Hey, I could pretty easily edit this so that the table of contents would be hyper-linked.  Not a big deal, but a bit easier then scrolling through it all to find a section.  I obviously would not want to do it without Nooblex's permission though.

And I may be missing a reason not to do it such as when it gets posted it would screw it up.  So feel free to say no haha.

[rygorych]

Whoever wrote the orc section is a baddie:

"-Orc is the slowest race for expanding. It takes about 3 minutes longer than Human to have an expansion up and running and a minute or two longer than Undead and Night Elf. A good creeping hero will help even it out a bit but you’ll never be able to expand as fast as Undead or Human, or mass expand as quickly as NE."

So false. I can expand faster than almost any other race/starter combo.

Any orc who goes grunts is bad/dumb on about 8/10 key maps. Yes, you need grunts on market and maybe 1 other map. That's it.

Bad because they are counting on their neighbour to be bad and not t3 chim/griff/wagon them into bits.

Getting rax+grunts is exactly the difference between being T3 rushable and not.

You can argue all you want that pro like darkness goes grunts, but let me ask you this, if darkness 2.0 played NE and matched with Orc Darkness 1.0, do you think 1.0 would stand a chance? Hell no, he'd get chimmed off the map before he got more than 2 bats. Grunt orcs count on others to be bad and not t3 rush the OP cheeser orc. Period.

[DarKNeSSCaLLs]

Rygo wat

Orc is indeed the slowest expansion race at the start, we are most vulnerable early game as a result. Things are evened out a bit when T3 hits, but we still are the weakest race in this respect, with undead being a close second.

Grunts vs HH early game is a player choice, there is nothing wrong with either as long as you don't over commit T1 if you don't need to and get plenty of wood peons for T2/T3 prep (unless shredder map)

An orc also is very capable of getting bats faster than an elf gets chims, it's just trying to maintain that economy that is the issue.

[rygorych]

Darkness, give me micro as good as yours and I will own you any time you go grunts or hh.

The only feasible way to fight off equal-skill t3 rush as orc is no rax, 1 hero straight t2 tech at 18/20 or 20/20, then bats or wyvs.

[FML|Renaud]

Sure, orc can get a fast expo, but human/elf/ud can get it faster

Fact is, orc can't build it's hall before and just move it into place
It can't have 5 peon building at once
And, it takes 150 sec to build a hall vs 100 for haunted mine

It's not just about creeping, simply making the darn hall takes more time :(

[rygorych]

Renaud,

Let's make it a challenge. You choose a map, and any race but orc. See if you can expo quicker than me.

The only time you will do it quicker is if you put 5 peasants on it to build faster, but you will spend a fuck ton extra gold on it. I will initiate mine faster though.

FML ladder maps I won't be able to expo fast on:
-Market

Deathrose, Monsoon and Deadlock I need some practice on.

Gold Rush, Silverpine, Twilight, Harvest are ez pz.

[Seksi]

Dude.

It's a matter of fact that ALL 3 races can expand faster then Orc.

A great hall takes (by far) the longest build time to complete.  Elf can expo WAY faster then you with a AoW + 1 archer tavern build, AoW creeping.  Undead can also expo faster with a quicker build time Haunted Gold Mine.  Lastly, Human can obviously expo faster with peasents.  Why would a human only expo with 1 peasent when one of its racial benefits its power building?  I'm not sure how you can possibly think Orc can expand the fastest.

And another note... You can start with grunts every time and be prepared for tier 3 rushes, every time.  IN solo or 2s, the typical tier 1 start is 4 grunts before tier 2.  In FFA, typically its 2 or 3.  Having only 2 or 3 instead of 4 allows you to get your tier 2 hero right away, tech tier 3 and also add 2 production buildings. 

Also: Where is this guide, I don't see it!  And for a shameless plug, soon enough I will have a guide as well that will have a fresh perspective on FFA with a lot of contributions from the community.  It will  be a unique guide aside from nooblex legendary book to enjoy and utilize in its own respect!

[rygorych]

Choose an FML map besides market, post replay.

I will post mine. Let's go, sons.

[FML|Renaud]

aight ill get on it!

but I do agree some of the orc stuff is maybe outdated (like assuming that an orc going air will have a panda)
Then again, I mostly read the elf part and the general one, din't read the orc/hu/ud

[rygorych]

Renaud -  Gold Rush, Silverpine, Twilight, Harvest I can post my time quicker. The other 3 I need to practice for awhile, because they are more tricky.

[Lightweight!]

Darkness, give me micro as good as yours and I will own you any time you go grunts or hh.

Darkness got a little rusty, you could have a shot without exchanging micro 

[FML|Renaud]

Grrrrr Now you give me the list of map!  I just wasted 5:32 on moonsoon getting it! (since im elf I waited for the mine to be entangled with 5 wisp)

Aight ill go try on these maps!

Edit: ill have to change my name lol, WorldEdit doesn't make nice replay :P