FFA Masters League
General => Strategy => Topic started by: FML|Renaud on August 26, 2011, 02:46:47 pm
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Are very strong (notice i din't say imba!! <3), we all know it, they know it, but it's kinda like tank/panda, it won't get fixed by complaining.
So, anyone have tricks against them, or know stuff who doesn't help and should be avoided? Even if they require micro :P
For example,
:ra:
-Siege weapon don't leave corpse when killing, stopping tauren from being rezed
-Hex can be dispelled (duh! but almost no one does it)
:hu:
-breaker can steal their ward (and most orcs don't notice so they don't bother to set more, or kill yours)
-Banish pretty much saves any of your unit from orc, since they have almost no magic attack
-the SH's BBW will NOT cancel hawk's ensare (but im pretty sure it does cancel damage dealt by ensare)
:ud:
-AMS blocks 300 dmg of bats damage
-A cursed/lusted unit will only have 92% of its usual dps
-having 1-2 necs will use the corpse tauren leaves behind, and stop them from being rezed
-cripple reduces the bm's dps and speed by 75%
:ne:
-cyclone... use it more!
Anything else? What unit should be killed first? What building should be killed first?
Usually when i watch game ppl bitch that they should kill the casters first.... however i remember doing just that once, watching the replay, and seeing everyone say "what an idiot! you have to kill the dps of wyv first"
Usually trying to kill hero is a waste of time, killing tauren will just get them rezed in a few sec (at least it gives xp)... So i guess the order would be Bats>Wyv>Caster>Tauren>Hero?
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for :elf: have a dryad, autocast off and use manually dispell on hexed heroes
carry 2-3 wisps with u to dispell the whole lusted orc-army
:random: donīt fight orc at ur base, try to avoid figthing orc at his base( when it is towered) and chose a battlefield somewhere esle...
:undead: alt qq, unless u mass ghoul rush
:human: outgold him by 3:1
:orc: mirror... boring... alt qq
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sif anti magic shield blocks bat damage
and when ure playing, its warcraft, not theorycraft (-: so the stuff ure saying about having "2 necs to stop tauren rez" is just not relevant :icon_confused:
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LOL @ "have 2 or 3 wisps with you to dispel whole lusted army"
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I have to agree with Elessar... The necs will be busy rezzing your own shit and have no mana by the time the Taurens finally die.
And wisps would dispel the army once and then the taurens would recast. O_o Again, not really applicable to the game. XD
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I never saw anyone use wisp that way :D actually i don't see how they would manage to reach the center of the orc army w/o dying :D
The necs wont be busy rezing your stuff if you have an all air army (or at least mostly)!
I have no clue what "sif" mean?
And since fighting orc in warcraft atm is "stick to your regular army and hope he screws up" i would rather find another army that could actually take them on
Actually... XX's mass frenzied wyrm with DK/PB/PL used to be pretty good vs orc if i remember correctly, although it was horrible if the orc had a DR (then again, what strat isn't completly contered by orc with dr T_T)
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Wisps. Brain.man aka stayingalive used them vs me.
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And was it effective? I suppose losing spirit link is the greatest blow, since it's not autocastable?
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Most important thing with any race: positioning - dont fight on open ground
I'd say the most effective army would be with human mass gryphs(solo style)pala aura hp/prot scrolls innerfire+ 3 staffs
Or then a t3 human army with casters knights sbs morts and mb a few gyros depending on what the orc makes(heavy on air/ground).
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healwards and sh u wont kill this wyvern... i hate to fight orc ....ground army senseless since tauren + tc stomp imba... and good micro with wyvern u wont kill with gyro or tanks...and mass gryphons just to slow..
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thats why you need a sorc to slow them down :P
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also keep in mind rain scroll of protection cancels out inner fire and vice versa
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What? You can have both inner fire and scroll of protection at once!
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healwards and sh u wont kill this wyvern... i hate to fight orc ....ground army senseless since tauren + tc stomp imba... and good micro with wyvern u wont kill with gyro or tanks...and mass gryphons just to slow..
Have you ever watched a solo game where hum fe and game ends up to both players banking at 50food and getting 100/100. Humans go pure gryph with sometimes a few bats and pretty often totally rape the orc army. And you can always get a few sbs/sorcs/priests to make sure orc army isnt buffed all fight.
And @ beljone, scroll of protection does not cancel out inner fire and vice versa. That makes zero sense.
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ud 100 food army is the best, anybody who disagrees feel free to do a unit tester vs me. and a orc 100 food army should always win vs the humans if we are going just by fixed 100 food and not a real game scenario.
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ud 100 food army is the best, anybody who disagrees feel free to do a unit tester vs me.
what do you put in this army and how this army kills a 100 food tauren/wyv/caster orc army?
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ud 100 food army is the best, anybody who disagrees feel free to do a unit tester vs me.
what do you put in this army and how this army kills a 100 food tauren/wyv/caster orc army?
Don't forget bats + a kodo!
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ud 100 food army is the best, anybody who disagrees feel free to do a unit tester vs me.
what do you put in this army and how this army kills a 100 food tauren/wyv/caster orc army?
well you don't just say i'm going 100 food of this, you actually have to counter what they are going.
well tauren wyv caster is a pretty bad combo but i guess ill help you with that.
Heroes- dk/lich/dl (ud army is useless without unholy aura, vamp aura is very good, sleep makes you win fights you shouldn't, and lich really just to frost armor vs bats usually.) Few variations possible(alchemist, dr, fl)
Units- never make a set 100 food army, always try to adapt to them. In that army comp case you just have to see what they have more of and what their base is able to reproduce quicker. Heavy tauren and bloodlust will make you need 3 boneyards with wyrms,5 banshees, 1 destroyer (2 statues to morph if they ff it and for chain morph). From there you have to fight in chokes as bloodlusted orc armies can move around you to fast and surround your banshess/fiends and lich too easily. Also, taurens splash can be annoying.
Heavy casters- get boots for your lich/dl and sleep the sh, then just nuke the casters over and over(nuke shamans first or they will purge you and most likely have to use two tps, i carry one on two different heroes) In the actual fights though you want a lot of destroyers and have a fiend shift clicked on all of the wards that are not in a cluster. Vs this army style you want a big spread out area, as you can do a lot of dancing around and the stasis wards will be less effective.
Heavy Wyvern- 1 destroyer, sleep on the tc because wyvern die too fast for healing wave to be effective and the bm's dps isn't anything in this situation. 3-8 banshees 2-5 fiends and rest in wyrms. With frost armor, and proper positioning wyrms are fine vs mass wyvern. Just keep them in the middle and bait the wyvern and then back up and have them each shoot a different webbed wyvern or they will be wasting shots.
Key tip
never make gargs, they suck vs everything except flying sheep critters.
Been traveling for last several hours and head hurts, let me know if you need help because im sure this post isn't very well structured.
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EDIT: Never mind, I'll be nice, your post has so much theorycraft, I looked at it and went "huh"?
During an actual battle vs an orc I doubt any of that will succeed, but hey, please prove me wrong :)
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haha this rsm guy..
ya that all makes sense in a forum but unless you have insane micro i dont see any of that working. lol @ UD doing 400 different actions to counter everything and...
meanwhile the orc just has to attack move.
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yeah just play darkness or dase or any guy playing orc decently
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sigh I try to help people, but some people are hopeless. Wait and see and please neither dase or darkness are good orcs.
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neither dase or darkness are good orcs
Yep I'm a noob :icon_lol:
So if I beat these proposed counters of yours then what... :icon_question: :icon_question: :icon_question:
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Worpex spends a lot of time on this league, lets not waste time arguing on the forums, but I will say that I'm so far ahead of you in skill that I could win with whatever combo I wanted. It is FFA yes, but in straight on fights you will lose everytime to my army comp and micro. Maybe i will reveal my real race for ffa and ffa name later on in the season.
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Worpex spends a lot of time on this league, lets not waste time arguing on the forums, but I will say that I'm so far ahead of you in skill that I could win with whatever combo I wanted. It is FFA yes, but in straight on fights you will lose everytime to my army comp and micro. Maybe i will reveal my real race for ffa and ffa name later on in the season.
Do not worry Worpex do not bother to read these kind of theorycraft topics, only renaud cares :D.
Anyway im curious so I propose to host a game on Market with you two and me as a host. You guys creep the map and go to 80 food army with like 5-4-3 heroes. When ready you fight. Could be fun.
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Anyway im curious so I propose to host a game on Market with you two and me as a host. You guys creep the map and go to 80 food army with like 5-4-3 heroes. When ready you fight. Could be fun.
Thanks Ugri but I have no desire to prove myself to someone who calls me and Dase (lol!) a noob, my past ladder accomplishments and replays posted already speak for themselves.
Also it looks like he's versus YZ in his game so we'll see how good his counters are against him ... :icon_smile:
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i've played you for years and you have always been terrible, you are scared and rightfully so i would not lose a single unit vs a terrible player such as yourself. I will gladly destroy you anytime.
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love plzleaveduck :DDD
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i've played you for years and you have always been terrible, you are scared and rightfully so i would not lose a single unit vs a terrible player such as yourself. I will gladly destroy you anytime.
I've only known a few legit players over the years on Azeorth who have provided very strong competition to me in FFA, but never someone who has completely destroyed me every time.
Until you reveal who you actually are, all your shittalk is just trolling nonsense and there's no point in saying anything further. And I find it funny that in a game as old as this, you would degrade to such a level. So like you said above:
lets not waste time arguing on the forums
Let's end this here.
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how about you keep on arguing until i see a replay of an good orc getting beaten in a "fair" environment (doesn't count if you have twice as much gold, twice the hero level, twice the food, etc etc etc)
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Btw, any one remember ffa on roc, where orc where shit and unplayable since they din;t have bats/orb, and UD was the best race, since there was no panda/tank air attack/bats
good times
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Btw, any one remember ffa on roc, where orc where shit and unplayable since they din;t have bats/orb, and UD was the best race, since there was no panda/tank air attack/bats
good times
orc in ffa was a big joke back then
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Ofc its natural that any one of us good solo players here will most likely win anyone with any race in a 1v1 situation (2players dead). Its stupid to question that since after all these ffa replays ive watched the ffa players often have pretty bad micro(or they dont care)
Still its pretty stupid, yet usual, for RSM to make statements like that and I hope hes atleast semi-trolling. Since there is no army from UD that beats a 100/100 fully upgraded wyw/caster, assuming hero lvls are similar and the player skill lvl are atleast somewhat similar.
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Still its pretty stupid, yet usual, for RSM to make statements like that
lol :D
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wtf RSM only Al Pacino is allowed to speak like this
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was reading SS's orc ground guide, this part made me smile :)
Perhaps that is the most satisfying aspect of this army, knowing that you have defeated your opponents by using a combination of your greatest strengths, rather than exploiting simple and nearly unstoppable aspects of your race.
A great quote from a great man!
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Change your signature to "world's advocate of orc's imbalance" please. It's getting boring, really. And your arguments always rely on your micro being insufficient, if you haven't noticed. There has been great players beating really great Orcs, such as plush. Why do you think that is?
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simple: teaming & rushing
I'm willing to agree orc is not the best race when it comes to winning ffa, but it IS the best race when it comes to winning battle in FFA. And this topic was mostly so i could see that little trick ppl might have vs them, turns out only ducks has a real plan, and i cant wait to see if it works
edit: i stand corrected, in s7 the orc was not teamed, however he was greatly out gold
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I'm willing to agree orc is not the best race when it comes to winning ffa, but it IS the best race when it comes to winning battle in FFA.
That's my key point. Glad you see it like that. Btw, battle.suck style might be better than standard Orc army. Takes quite the micro though.
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renaud is gettin soft - i might have to pick up where he's leaving off
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haha slythe told me the same thing a while back ^^ but that's probably because the last few fml game lacked orc!
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Duck wont probably show to his match so we wont enjoy his demonstration vs y.z
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So about the order of killing stuff... i always though kodo only gave +10%, but turns out its +20%, so its probably the first thing that should be killed? (assuming hes not massing bats)
i mean it dies in a second, and as far as dps goes, its equivalent to killing 1/5 of the army
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yes, that's right. in roc it would give +10% and then tft gave an upgrade that allowed kodo to add +20%. i would like to add that renaud is an orc in disguise, as his forum title says "tauren".
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For the record I was trolling, Undead is terrible in every game type. I thought it was obvious the second I said orc wasn't broken.
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btw hydro, isnt your title "Grunt"?
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btw hydro, isnt your title "Grunt"?
:O
Damn you dirty apes!!!!! Damn it all to hell!!!!!!