FFA Masters League

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 04:53:55 am

Title: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 04:53:55 am

i really have to say this:
from what i have seen so far from round 1 the replays were horrible,

three things:

1) i will not say names but half of the players i have seen so far had horrible micro AND macro... I dont even know why they are in the league in stead of me or lightweight for example...

2) 'old pro's ' like wrecktify get a free spot in the league based on PREVIOUS achievements... seriously he says that my playstyle sucks but i watched him playing ud and he sucked MUCH MORE than me...
it's possible that he was good in the past but at the moment he sucks

3) Why are some of the games influenced by old disputes between players... i saw nebu suiciding somebody because he was upset with him from something in the past -_- or is that just his personalilty? actually im not surprised after i heard about his hacking skills...


seriously, i'm still waiting for a replay that is worth watching... however, players like maga, darkness, dase, renaud still have to play... these games will definitely be more skilled, at least i hope so...

voila, i said it, i feel better now...

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|red7z7 on November 08, 2011, 05:42:06 am

1) butthurt

2) butthurt

3) thats how the FFA community is

wait for round 2, the 25 pt matches should be good.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 08, 2011, 05:45:22 am

By your definition of skillful games, you have about 9000 replays from other seasons to watch.
Did you watch them all? No? Go watch them.

I'm bored of "skilful games". I want fun games. Look, I believe that Darkness has 300 apm, and I was impressed of his and similar micro... the first 3 games I watched. After that, it got stale.

Same armies over and over.
Same heroes over and over.
Same fights over and over.
Same manip over and over.

At least play it fast and dynamic... but no, these micro monkeys refuse to perma-team and sit around for 3 hours, base race (lol, what a joke, this one),  and pretend like they have no gold.



And mmk, you're pretty good player but you don't have much FFA experience. I suggest running ladder for 300ish games, might help.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 06:04:43 am

Quote from: rygorych on November 08, 2011, 05:45:22 am

And mmk, you're pretty good player but you don't have much FFA experience. I suggest running ladder for 300ish games, might help.

that's why i OWNED you last game? shall i post it?
maybe i dont play ffa already for 10 years like you but at least i have enough experience to know that if i see a nerd like you camping in his base with 1000 moonwells and protectors, waiting for the 1v1 to baserace with your faggot tinker... you just ASK me to rush you out,
oh wait, you have other strats as well: ruining the ffa scene by suiciding players for disputes of years ago or just hacking the lone forum for whatever reason...
i have been upset to maga too because he owned me but i still respect him as a player and when a new game starts, i forget about the past and just play the game...

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 08, 2011, 06:18:23 am

Well the problem with that is that you didn't rush me out. You sat outside harassing while 3rd player cleaned out the map, until he took you out. You didn't own me son. You sat outside my base for 40 min... that's something... but not owning.

Owning is when your fuckin' skies turn purple, right rabbit?

And whoa, I hacked the lone forums? NICE!

Suicides for disputes years ago? Errrm, I remember 1 or 2 game tops from a WEEK ago, at best.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Q-veta on November 08, 2011, 06:29:08 am

Quote from: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 04:53:55 am

1) i will not say names but half of the players i have seen so far had horrible micro AND macro... I dont even know why they are in the league in stead of me or lightweight for example...

Because you failed to qualify.

Quote from: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 04:53:55 am

2) 'old pro's ' like wrecktify get a free spot in the league based on PREVIOUS achievements... seriously he says that my playstyle sucks but i watched him playing ud and he sucked MUCH MORE than me...
it's possible that he was good in the past but at the moment he sucks

I agree, Wrecktify sucked which makes his trash talking during my game even more hilarious.

Quote from: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 04:53:55 am

3) Why are some of the games influenced by old disputes between players... i saw nebu suiciding somebody because he was upset with him from something in the past -_- or is that just his personalilty? actually im not surprised after i heard about his hacking skills...

It's always been like that. I don't know why things would change now.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 06:38:39 am

Quote from: Q-veta on November 08, 2011, 06:29:08 am

Quote from: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 04:53:55 am

1) i will not say names but half of the players i have seen so far had horrible micro AND macro... I dont even know why they are in the league in stead of me or lightweight for example...

Because you failed to qualify.

then why are there players in the league that are worse but don't even need to qualify?

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 06:50:07 am

Quote from: rygorych on November 08, 2011, 06:18:23 am

Well the problem with that is that you didn't rush me out. You sat outside harassing while 3rd player cleaned out the map, until he took you out. You didn't own me son. You sat outside my base for 40 min... that's something... but not owning.

Owning is when your fuckin' skies turn purple, right rabbit?

And whoa, I hacked the lone forums? NICE!

Suicides for disputes years ago? Errrm, I remember 1 or 2 game tops from a WEEK ago, at best.

dude you don't know what you're saying... the other 2 players were fighting too, i scouted that,
i post the game this evening (i can 't now, im at work and the site is blocked by the proxy)

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Q-veta on November 08, 2011, 07:04:40 am

Quote from: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 06:38:39 am

Quote from: Q-veta on November 08, 2011, 06:29:08 am

Quote from: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 04:53:55 am

1) i will not say names but half of the players i have seen so far had horrible micro AND macro... I dont even know why they are in the league in stead of me or lightweight for example...

Because you failed to qualify.

then why are there players in the league that are worse but don't even need to qualify?

Like who? I already qualified once and I played in a season or two. I don't think there's a single player in the league that didn't have to qualify to get in at one point.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 07:18:12 am

Quote from: Q-veta on November 08, 2011, 07:04:40 am

Quote from: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 06:38:39 am

Quote from: Q-veta on November 08, 2011, 06:29:08 am

Quote from: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 04:53:55 am

1) i will not say names but half of the players i have seen so far had horrible micro AND macro... I dont even know why they are in the league in stead of me or lightweight for example...

Because you failed to qualify.

then why are there players in the league that are worse but don't even need to qualify?

Like who? I already qualified once and I played in a season or two. I don't think there's a single player in the league that didn't have to qualify to get in at one point.

doesn't even matter... EVERYBODY should qualify to make a fair competition,
it 's not because somebody was good in the past, that he is still good at the moment...
if you really want to count previous experience, the admins can always compose matchups at round 1 with the favourites spread in different games and with underdogs or new players as opponents

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|red7z7 on November 08, 2011, 07:58:06 am

Quote from: Q-veta on November 08, 2011, 07:04:40 am

Like who? I already qualified once and I played in a season or two. I don't think there's a single player in the league that didn't have to qualify to get in at one point.

last season didnt have qualifiers, and people from last season who won a game got in this season. then darkermirror and I were put in the open spaces, not having won a game last season. so in that way we never qualified. cool story amirite

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 08, 2011, 08:03:24 am

I agree with you mmk, the qualifiers aren't enough to decide who is really best for the league. FFA is about 75% luck 25% skill, so 1 game is hardly the indicator. But the problem with, it's difficult to schedule matches, so the mods cant really run 10 qualifier rounds. Sorry man, I actually thought you were good enough to participate in the league.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 08, 2011, 09:31:24 am

First of all, i think you are confusing nebu and ebo!
Nebu is the one who disband lone / hacked the forums multiple times

1) Some of them because they won the qualifiers (luck?), some because we made a bad judgement call.  Since its hard to have a good ideal on ppl's skill after just a few game, we usually try to remember how good they where / performed in the past games they played (we had a lot of games in between season)

2) The problem is the number of applications (i will make up numbers since i don't remember exactly)  If we have 40 application and are trying to reduce it to 32, we can't have everyone in the qualifiers, so we auto qualify player who have already proven themselves (usually player who where in the top of the league last season) in wreck's case, we were scared he would be rusty, but he was a returning champion. 
We tried to imagine diffrent system, but so far this seems to be the least worst best way (open to suggestion... but the fastest they could be used would be next season)

And the reason we wanted to reduces the numbers of player, is because we had a sub problem last season.  Whenever a player would be missing, we had a player who as already in the league subbing, and he would often screw the game (as opposed to the sub outside the league who is eager to prove he should get auto in next season)


3) sucks :/

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 09:44:36 am

ah i thought rygorych was the person responsible for hacking the forums, sry for the mistake... i was indeed mixing up nebu and ebo

btw, how did you actually know it was that nebu guy who hacked the forum?

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rsm on November 08, 2011, 09:48:47 am

Quote from: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 04:53:55 am

i really have to say this:
from what i have seen so far from round 1 the replays were horrible,

three things:

1) i will not say names but half of the players i have seen so far had horrible micro AND macro... I dont even know why they are in the league in stead of me or lightweight for example...

2) 'old pro's ' like wrecktify get a free spot in the league based on PREVIOUS achievements... seriously he says that my playstyle sucks but i watched him playing ud and he sucked MUCH MORE than me...
it's possible that he was good in the past but at the moment he sucks

3) Why are some of the games influenced by old disputes between players... i saw nebu suiciding somebody because he was upset with him from something in the past -_- or is that just his personalilty? actually im not surprised after i heard about his hacking skills...


seriously, i'm still waiting for a replay that is worth watching... however, players like maga, darkness, dase, renaud still have to play... these games will definitely be more skilled, at least i hope so...

voila, i said it, i feel better now...

and this is why i would never accept you to the league.

1) Lets see you micro arena vs me
2) Lets see you try to offrace me
3)Lets see you try to beat me in a straight up game
4) Lets have duck show you the way out
5)Lets hope i don't get banned for being extra welcoming

Define skill? Players who cookie cut every game and only win because the other players have some mutual agreement to not abuse the flaws in their builds?


By the way I am willing to take in a protoje ( don't even want to know how bad I fucked that spelling up) If anybody wants to easily become top 3 players in the league let me know. Only requirement is that your IQ is above deuce's, because brains can not be taught.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 08, 2011, 09:58:47 am

it's actually surprising it took us so long to figure it was nebu, every time something was not going his way (losing discussion on lone forum, losing qualifiers, someone din't agree to his suggestions, etc etc) the forum would go down.  I think eventually someone (I[AM]SMRT?) figured it out (something like he deleted all accounts including his own... but his own was the last to be deleted so it sorta pointed to him?  don't remember)  nebu then made a post telling us he had been doing for years and we where all idiots (or something like that).

Later he tried to make peace, but many had huge trust issue with him, so it was hard.

(Although tbh it wasn't really hacking most of the times, since he was almost always either admin or had password to someone who was.)

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Ugrilainen on November 08, 2011, 10:45:30 am

Quote from: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 08, 2011, 04:53:55 am

i really have to say this:
from what i have seen so far from round 1 the replays were horrible,

three things:

1) i will not say names but half of the players i have seen so far had horrible micro AND macro... I dont even know why they are in the league in stead of me or lightweight for example...

2) 'old pro's ' like wrecktify get a free spot in the league based on PREVIOUS achievements... seriously he says that my playstyle sucks but i watched him playing ud and he sucked MUCH MORE than me...
it's possible that he was good in the past but at the moment he sucks

3) Why are some of the games influenced by old disputes between players... i saw nebu suiciding somebody because he was upset with him from something in the past -_- or is that just his personalilty? actually im not surprised after i heard about his hacking skills...


seriously, i'm still waiting for a replay that is worth watching... however, players like maga, darkness, dase, renaud still have to play... these games will definitely be more skilled, at least i hope so...

voila, i said it, i feel better now...

wtf is this post  :icon_eek:

You didnt qualify and have no history in FML. The fact some qualified without winning a game last season was just a mathematical problem. You had 3 shoots to make it into the league. Your game 3 harassing the orc without a back up army while starshaped had finished blooder and was creeping all the red spots is not super macro either.

1- Some lack macro, some lack micro but I didnt see much players lacking both. My micro suck but my macro is good for example (feel free to think different). Game were high level, maybe not spectacular but skilled anyway : Hstar win was skilled and entertaining, Q-veta vs Sparkle was super nice to watch, y.z win with 36 food vs 100 food army was great, w8man/l77/rain game was boring for sure but the level was high! Just M7 lacked a little bit of skill/entertainement.

2- Because we had to make choices. We wanted a 32 players league for the reason renaud explained and the only way to give 2 shots to players to qualify was this 16 players format where 7 qualify.
Those who were chosen to skip the qualifiers without winning a game were :
- darkermirror : he is on the ffa scene forever, he is a very skilled ne
- wrectify : 2 times champion
- Q-veta : was part of most of the old seasons, very good human player
- Killyoself : was rank 1 ladder (mb it was a mistake to put him directly but w/e)
- Red7z7 : Worpex decision, he was in qualifiers but got a spot after htrt resigned.

3- Wtf nebu not in the league. Personal issues are part of ffa, some of these guys hate each other... so what?

Btw R2 will kick ass with the winner playing each other

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 08, 2011, 11:01:00 am

Quote from: FML|Renaud on November 08, 2011, 09:31:24 am

3) sucks :/

I'm sure this is in reference to my game. Which is baffling after about 100 comments by me explaining my strat in fine detail. Did the ebo vs rabbit conflict affect the game? of course. If it wasn't for that, I'd probably play differently. But my macro strat is set from the start and it's not very flexible. This is just how I play and this historically is how I get best chances to win with shitty micro. But so what? I played for the win, and lost due to external and very unlikely factor (2x fml champ owned in a 1v1 like a scrub).


Btw I am all for fully anonymous FML (where everyone is hidden under a random name and is not allowed to call anyone out). To me, this would be the perfect competition to indicate skill.

Of course this wouldn't happen because everyone feels the need to stroke Darkness's ego about his perfect micro and if he was some wehrweug231 it just wouldn't be as pleasant.

Toods.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 08, 2011, 11:16:20 am

I mean it sucks that it happens, i understand your reasoning in your game, and i do think you where partially right.

However, would the human not have been rabbit, you might have tried to peace him once you saw wreck was dying, in order to 2v1 the ud (i am GUESSING you din't because you knew rabbit would never agree to it with you, and i'm guessing you're right, rabbit would not have agreed to it, after having been rushed that way + you're history)

This is why i love games with eshan, it took me a while to realize it, but i don't have to hunt him down once i'm losing, hes smart enough to team the strongest regardless of who fucked him over (most of the time at least)

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 08, 2011, 11:28:37 am

Quote from: rsm on November 08, 2011, 09:48:47 am

By the way I am willing to take in a protoje ( don't even want to know how bad I fucked that spelling up) If anybody wants to easily become top 3 players in the league let me know. Only requirement is that your IQ is above deuce's, because brains can not be taught.

/kneel /bow /grovel

Take me, take me!

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Lightweight! on November 08, 2011, 11:33:06 am

I guess to explain nebu it would need an own thread. I guess this guy will be always the damocles sword above fml-forums. I'm happy he is not playing anymore.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Mage on November 08, 2011, 11:52:47 am

Seriously MMK?  You had your shots to qualify, just like I did, and just like lw did.  It sucks we didn't make it, but suck it up and practice to get better for next season.  There are plenty of games going on in ggc usually that you can play in so you aren't ffa deprived, and we're welcome to sub in the games where people can't make it. 

Duck, it's protege.  Not to far off.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Murrock on November 08, 2011, 04:05:41 pm

Moar Murrock imo.

And EHuaeAHEUAEUEHAuehEAHe@people like QHKane in this league

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 08, 2011, 04:14:36 pm

Quote from: practicemage on November 08, 2011, 11:52:47 am

Seriously MMK?  You had your shots to qualify, just like I did, and just like lw did.  It sucks we didn't make it, but suck it up and practice to get better for next season.  There are plenty of games going on in ggc usually that you can play in so you aren't ffa deprived, and we're welcome to sub in the games where people can't make it. 

Well said comrade.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: KiLLyoSeLF on November 08, 2011, 05:34:43 pm

Wtf Renaud you need to start using your brain re: ebo's mental instability. Take it off 4x on the replay for a second:

He picked NE, not one of his main races (he plays undead + ork).

He says BEFORE scouting ANY position on the map that he is suiciding me.

That means he says BEFORE he knows I am human that he is suiciding me (and considering that is EXACTLY what he did, 2 heros and all, he can't say he was lying--even his post-game comments were that he planned to suicide me before the game started, and since he had NO IDEA what race I'd be as I randomed, me being human had NOTHING to do with his decision).

He doesn't scout all game outside of initial wisp to Wreck, where he instantly says he is suiciding me...without even knowing if he is surrounded by DUCK and Wreck.

You're looking at the game and saying what would you would have done given positions and races (I'd hit the human too). The problem is that had NOTHING to do with why he did what he did, and he hasn't even tried to hide that.

At least congrats to ebo, he managed to make his BS taste well for you guys to be willing to eat it so happily.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 08, 2011, 05:49:34 pm

Quote from: KiLLyoSeLF on November 08, 2011, 05:34:43 pm

Wtf Renaud you need to start using your brain re: ebo's mental instability. Take it off 4x on the replay for a second:

He picked NE, not one of his main races (he plays undead + ork).

He says BEFORE scouting ANY position on the map that he is suiciding me.

That means he says BEFORE he knows I am human that he is suiciding me (and considering that is EXACTLY what he did, 2 heros and all, he can't say he was lying--even his post-game comments were that he planned to suicide me before the game started, and since he had NO IDEA what race I'd be as I randomed, me being human had NOTHING to do with his decision).

He doesn't scout all game outside of initial wisp to Wreck, where he instantly says he is suiciding me...without even knowing if he is surrounded by DUCK and Wreck.

You're looking at the game and saying what would you would have done given positions and races (I'd hit the human too). The problem is that had NOTHING to do with why he did what he did, and he hasn't even tried to hide that.

At least congrats to ebo, he managed to make his BS taste well for you guys to be willing to eat it so happily.

I'd destroy you regardless of race. Humans are just easiest because of their magic-vulnerable towers.

The "I'm suiciding rabbit" at the start was the reverse-psych manip. I made truce with you on the mines, so not like you took it seriously, don't pretend you did. The only one who saw through my manip was Duck, which he explained, and which is why he won this game

I saw Wreck's aco shortly after. My early strat was very demanding and I didn't have time to scout anything else. I don't even need do. Any one who scouts full circles of the map is silly. You should scout only the position closest to you, then listen to chat (hint, Duck asks who is his LEFT SIDE neighbors).

Look son, you got plain OWNED.

Like I said before, the only thing you're good for is pawning noobs on ladder. In a game with 3 decent-good players you are just a green creep spot (not even orange... I got shit exp from killing you off).

The sky is purple Rabbit. And it's shooting fuckin' thunderbolts. At your ass.

Go back to owning ladder noobs son, only thing you're good for. Leave the real game to real men.

Toodles.

P.S. I can play any race well enough, though obv not pro with either of them, but better than you at least. Don't be mad that you went cheese pal/mk and got owned by a fuckin' Tinkerer, SON.

P.P.S. Yeah, keep pulling the mental instability card. It should actually make you feel bad arguing with someone mentally unstable. It should make you feel even worse getting OWNED so hard by someone with a mental handicap.


Ebo out.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: KiLLyoSeLF on November 08, 2011, 06:12:53 pm

You really think 100 food suiciding someone with chippo is owning them? Or that outweighs getting repeatedly raped every anon-game because you don't know which one the three to suicide?

News flash, we both lost. You didn't win. You didn't own anything. You lost. You seem intent on bragging about losing, which is weird, given every player in FML is capable of 100 food suiciding. It wasn't skill...it was just a mentally instable way of losing.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 08, 2011, 06:41:17 pm

I wasn't saying he rushed you because you where human, i was just referring to you as "the human" because saying

"would rabbit not have been rabbit"

sounded confusing! (i though)
ofc i'm sure rushed you because you where rabbit, but assuming he would have rushed someone other than rabbit, he might have peaced him when he saw it was a bad move

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 08, 2011, 06:44:42 pm

and as far as FML is concerned, after 1 round, ebo == rabbits, there is no diffrence what so ever in 2nd and 3rd place (we removed it from tie breakers, since ppl rightfully hated it)

And before you tell me you guys a different, i'm talking position wise... ebo == rabbits == 6th place (9th place soon actually)

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 08, 2011, 07:43:03 pm

Quote from: KiLLyoSeLF on November 08, 2011, 06:12:53 pm

You really think 100 food suiciding someone with chippo is owning them? Or that outweighs getting repeatedly raped every anon-game because you don't know which one the three to suicide?

News flash, we both lost. You didn't win. You didn't own anything. You lost. You seem intent on bragging about losing, which is weird, given every player in FML is capable of 100 food suiciding. It wasn't skill...it was just a mentally instable way of losing.

I fully realize that I lost.


But I did the number crunch before the game, and:
If I didn't do what I did, I'd have about 11% chance of winning (myself having the worst micro of the 4).
After I took you out, I had about 66% chance of winning (best position in a 3 way, best manip for 3 way, best disposition towards duck).
Alas, Wreck sucked, and I got stuck in a quick 1v1 against duck. My micro being shit and my gold not being 10x of his, my chances of winning were about 20%.

So I acted rationally by taking you out. I got the best possible chances to win, although, as FFA is largely luck, it didn't work out in the end.

I am, however glad to have gone out with the all the fireworks and applause from the audience. As I said before, I don't just play to win. I play to win with STYLE. I lose with style, too.

Purple sky, son. You'll remember purple sky for a long time.

Toodles.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|WorpeX on November 08, 2011, 07:55:47 pm

Why do you keep saying FFA is largely luck? I completely and totally disagree. If FFA was all luck we would not see the same winners every season. We would not have accurate predicons in FML and furthermore we would be seeing weaker players winning matches they shouldn't win.

I think you're just using "luck" as an excuse for your losses. Their is luck in FFA, yes, but not nearly to the degree you imply.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 08, 2011, 08:07:41 pm

FFA is luck when it's among players of equal skill.

FML is not really in indicator of that.. you have 4-5 absolute nuts of rice's caliber, about 10 "quite goods" and the rest are "decent". (and 1 bad, being me... and 1 horrible, being rabbit).

Could you honestly predict the outcome of S10 final? No freaking way. When you have 4 ppl with as much as skill as those guys, it comes down to LUCK.

Luck like Das being sandwiched, then running around like a headless chicken being cut off because human* expoed the wrong way. Luck like items drop, luck like a player deciding to go one way to creep and not the other, luck like a bugged creep not bugging out for once, lucky crit, etc.

Now if you put up a game like Dase, Darkness, Htrt and lets say Blooder... well, I have a fucking bridge to sell to anyone who bets on Blooder (who's quite good, but obv not the others' caliber).

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 08, 2011, 08:11:34 pm

And I actually don't cite lack as an excuse for my losses... I call it what it is in general.

In my games, I try to minimize the impact of luck. My entire macro strat is based on as little luck as possible. And it's not entirely accurate of course for me to say that, because luck isn't really the factors out of my control (e.g. wreck losing 1v1 to duck).

So there is:

1. Your skill
2. Factors outside your control/skill
3. Luck

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: KiLLyoSeLF on November 08, 2011, 08:52:19 pm

It's been 3 days so I finally have to ask...wtf does purple sky mean? Is it some nerd reference I don't recognize? Or is it some like deeply deeply nerdy Warcraft reference I'd have to have played WoW or something to have learned?

Q-veta help me. Right he could be saying "pink polar bear!" a trillion times for all it means to me, because that's about as much as "purple sky" makes sense to me.

Or is purple sky some form of saying, "I suicide you when I know who you are because I'm afraid of you actually beating me in a game where I can't blame a noob for not 2v1ing you well enough to make the 2v1 work!"

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: DarKNeSSCaLLs on November 08, 2011, 09:29:00 pm

Luck will always be present in FFA games, but if you're saying a game is 100% based on luck, sorry I disagree with you. I've come out of really bad situations before due to clever thinking + strategy. Outsmarting/outplaying your opponents can be a key factor to victory.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 08, 2011, 09:42:13 pm

I think hes referring to his mass chim in the sky

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rsm on November 08, 2011, 09:58:50 pm

If we aren't taking spawn location into account there isn't a single factor of luck in FFA. I'm baffled at the amount of people who think there is besides the usual spawn position, or item drops. It is all skill, anybody who thinks it is luck simply is bad at ffa. I wouldn't be able to go 90% with about 50 ffa games on ladder if it was luck. OFC nowadays i don't even find at 10-0 ffa....

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 09, 2011, 05:11:30 am

Of course it's not a 100%

In a game with top 4 skilled players, e.g. HTRT, Dase, Maga and choose 1 more who's head+shoulders above everyone else (let's say Target in his prime), it will be very high. I'd say 60-70%. On a low-creep map, even higher due to item drops (e.g. pipe on Monsoon or Gold Rush).

I mean, think about it.

We can all pretty much agree, the players have about same micro, same macro, same manip.

So as they come into the game, their chance to win is:
HTRT 25%
Dase 25%
Maga 25%
Target 25%

Now, let's say Dase is position fucked near HTRT and is fucked on every creep he tries. His chance to win goes down to let's say 5%, while others are up to 30%, HTRT being fed  to 35%. Had dase spawned in another direction, or at least didnt feed Htrt, it could have been different, right?

Of course you can argue, HTRT is actually just an awesome player and is even better than Dase... Sure, that's possible, but then we're not in equal game after all.


So when I say luck is a #1 FFA winning factor, I'm talking about the games where everyone is of equal skill.

I honestly am not sure how you argue against this...


Now Duck what you're talking about is a long run streak, and you're absolutely right, in the long run, the effect of luck diminishes (you get to play various maps, various positions, various creep drops), and overall effect of skill increases. However when I talk about luck, I talk about a single game with even skill distribution. This is simple stats people.


And a little more for those who are math-inclined/nerrrds:

(click to show/hide)

In statistics, it is agreed that the golden number is "30" when it comes to proving consistent effects of factor X on outcome Y.

So, for example if Ebo claims to win 80% of non-noob games, he will need to play 30 non-noob games and indicate an overall winning rate of 80%.

If, for example, Ebo plays only 10 games, and wins 8 of them (also 80% winning rate) this is not yet an indicator of his being right... it could be assumed as "luck" until he plays the full 30 games, after which it could be concluded that his particular skill indeed contributes to the winning rate of 80%, rather than luck.

Furthermore, the each experiment needs to exactly the same (e.g. vs exact same players).

What all of the above basically means is that it is very hard to judge skill statistically, even based on ALL of FML seasons. We can certainly see "obvious" trends, but because almost every game is against different players, there is a huge soup of factors and maps, and thus true level of skill/luck effects can not be calculated, not even in another few years of running the league.

Fundamentally, talking about a single game rather than an array, and assuming difference in skill is not a factor, it comes down to luck (60-80% depending on map) and the variation of external factors.

 

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|red7z7 on November 09, 2011, 07:51:10 am

we can test that hypothesis actually. put them in the same game 10-20 times and get a statistical result and check if its significant ^^


srsly though, can we? it would be great to see

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 09, 2011, 08:23:24 am

Absolutely, and for example if out of 40 games,

Htrt wins 12
Dase wins 10
Maga wins 10
Target wins 8

We can say that the players are approx. same skill, but Htrt is the slightly better than the rest while Dase = Maga.

Of course here is where the long-term race imba kicks in and we can either conclude that Target is the worst out of 4, or simply NE is least powerful in the long run while Hu is the most powerful.

TLDR: we don't have enough data to really say anything besides the obvious trends over the years. Let's play the game and enjoy it instead of arguing semantics.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: y.zenchenko on November 09, 2011, 08:40:57 am

I wanna show my opinoin on this topic. Out of my ffa-experience I can claim the following (talikng about b.net ot FNL games):
80% or may be 90% of games I've lost are lost because of my own mistakes and not because of someone else's luck or something else.

that's it

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 09, 2011, 09:20:32 am

Well, I see your point, but it's questionable.
Because often (at med-high level game) position luck is unlucky, because it gets you teamed. 

but i see what you mean

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 09, 2011, 09:54:11 am

You're right Renaud, and then there are also external factors like:

-interpersonal conflicts among players (e.g. I'm more inclined to hit Rabbit)
-lag
-how tired/distracted a player is
-cat on the keyboard
-race hate (e.g bias vs orc/hu)

...which are not really luck, but for any given particular match could be assigned same statistical value as luck.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 09, 2011, 01:18:54 pm

Quote from: rygorych on November 09, 2011, 09:54:11 am

-cat on the keyboard

In the king of FFA finals, at some point a cat jump on me (not the keyboard ty god) was pretty lucky it was during some idle times!

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: shiKaka on November 09, 2011, 02:35:17 pm

I had the opportunity to sit down with HTRT the french free for all master. Please take a look at what he had to say about being FML champion.


me - teach me to be FFA CHAMPION!@#%
htrt - $$$$$$
me - i will teach you how to get laid!
htrt - See that's your first problem, the key to getting being FML champion is NOT getting laid.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMK on November 09, 2011, 02:37:10 pm

http://www.ffareplays.com/parse.php?file=-__- (http://www.ffareplays.com/parse.php?file=-__-) -> proof that luck is really an important factor

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rsm on November 09, 2011, 07:08:05 pm

Well I was planning on continuing to not go 100% in FFA games so that I would not get teamed or my real ID would get figured out but the ignorance of 99% of the people on the forum is obnoxious now. I'm going to show you rather that it is not luck and I am going to sweep this season not getting 2nd place or lower once. I am even stating this now to give everybody the chance to a mutual 3 way team me then go into their own 3 way.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Peregrine on November 09, 2011, 07:15:15 pm

the comments on this thread are pathetic

where are all the top ffa players anymore? i dont want to have to listen to the completely retarded musings of noobs like Ebo, who come up with the most nonsensical statements

lol @ "play 300 games on ladder to get better" you played 3000 games and still suck.

MMMMK i liked your games but FFA is more than micro, ffa sense and macro are equally important, and manip and chat is a factor as well. i was rooting for you, but you had 3 chances dude.

RSM you are good but you talk mad shit and havent won anything significant in FFA yet. In fact neither did Yane so it was annoying that pro soloers get big headed before winning. The game you just won had two boneheads and a rusty old schooler who went the wrong race.

Renaud speaks the truth, so does YZ and darkness. FFA incorporates luck, but the good players are the ones who can consistently tilt the odds in their favor.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 09, 2011, 07:51:43 pm

Eshan, you are mathematically clueless. Don't even try. You haven't read shit of what I posted. I'm sorry, I can't argue with someone with zero understanding of basic statistics/zero reading comprehension.


P.s. plug pull on lvl 5 mk dk lich, owned son

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rsm on November 09, 2011, 08:01:17 pm

If you only know what I have accomplished in FFA, although I may not be as strong in FFA as I once was. EBO is a far better strategical player then almost any1 else who posts on here sides rebuke and I. People are just too stupid to notice it.

but no no eshan please agreeing with 50% random bnet players.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: DarKNeSSCaLLs on November 09, 2011, 08:04:42 pm

rsm you have no secret FFA aka, it's already been admitted by several people who have played with you in the past and Worpex, along with the fact that your playstyle clearly speaks for itself in regards to FFA knowledge. The trolling is getting old.

P.S.
I beat you in undead mirror without breaking a sweat, it's not even my main race. Yeah yeah, your mouse was broken or you were playing on a laptop or you were drunk from the night before or you were sick or etc etc etc. And now you'll challenge me to a 1v1.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: L77 on November 09, 2011, 08:18:40 pm

Micro plays a role in ffa, albeit a smaller one than macro and taking advantages of opportunities when they are presented.  Micro won't get a player far if he's overly aggressive, which invites teaming.  This is why players with inferior micro (such as myself) are able to succeed in ffa, as they are able to maximize the benefits of whatever opportunities/openings they are given in a game.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rsm on November 09, 2011, 10:03:04 pm

darkness, lets be honest you are a no name 40% rt player who thinks kodosforsaken is good LOL, you lose all credibility right there.

Worpex has underrated me since wco I don't take his opinion seriously, a great guy though and it's quite funny to see the posts I see you make about me compared to how you regard me on my other name. You lost to me in undead mirror, but if you consider going afk after feeding your heroes and then me leaving when I saw maga won a victory then that further goes to show why you are a 40% player. There is no point in asking to 1v1 a player I can beat at 50% handicap. I pray that you win your game so that I get the chance to rape you yet again, they have to balance the game somehow, putting me with at least 1 retard such as yourself would do.

If it was a secret ffa name how would people know? I haven't even told rebuke, while your at it you should ask rebuke his secret league name ^^ if you don't mind banning him. Undead Is not my main race either, you know absolutely nothing about ffa. Good day.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|red7z7 on November 09, 2011, 10:10:23 pm

shit just got real

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Peregrine on November 09, 2011, 10:25:21 pm

LOL Ebo, if you had any idea about me in real life...

your 'mathematical analysis' is you taking what happened in the game and retroactively applying generally estimated but acceptable percentages to WHAT ALREADY HAPPENED.

we already admitted your strategy in that game was not bad, but don't try to bullshit with 'i did the numbers crunch before the game' because you didnt. Or prove me wrong and show us the probabilities for all outcomes and strategies in your next FML matchup.

BEFORE THE GAME. Or post it right as the game starts so you don't give away your secret knowledge lmfao

I've never seen such a self-absorbed pathological liar on these forums.

AND RSM my man i dont know whether or not you have some 'secret ffa name' or whether rebuke is playing on two accounts or whether you two have buttsex on Sundays, but I've watched your games. You are a good player, but almost solely on account of your superior micro. and you're a smart guy so you dont make retard mistakes. Pro micro + common sense gets you to the above average level, which is what you are =). Once u win something or reveal these 'secret ffa accomplishments' then we can talk. and unless you are secretly FLY theres nothing you can even reveal lol.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Peregrine on November 09, 2011, 10:27:41 pm

So no Red, i think shit just got more fake =/


But i'm very interested to see 'RSM" back up his flawless FML victory streak this season. If he pulls that off then i'll concede respect

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 09, 2011, 10:35:50 pm

Actually fly was from Minnesota i think.
and i think rsm is from Maryland?

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: DarKNeSSCaLLs on November 09, 2011, 10:36:31 pm

 :icon_lol:

Quote

I get the chance to rape you yet again

You never raped me once, you didn't even beat me in one battle, so how exactly can you "rape me yet again?"

Honestly you're just an awful troll, nothing you say has any merit.  You don't have a secret FFA name. You don't have a secret FFA race. You're a decent American solo UD player (which means nothing, war3 solo is dead and Europeans are 5x better than American solo players) who has failed time and time again to adjust to FFA tactics.

I also like how you are obsessed with percentages like it gives a damn. I can, and have, gone 80-90% many times on accounts, but then that means 1+ hour search times, what exactly is the point then in today's dead ladder? Do you honestly think I care what my percentage is in RT/FFA? No, obviously I don't give a shit or else I would be making new accounts every time I go 40-0. The percentage battles died long ago when the new ELL was fully integrated and hackers + AT abusers took over the scene. Head back to 2005 since it seems it's the only weapon you can use against others when you have nothing else to say.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rsm on November 09, 2011, 10:43:08 pm

of course % means nothing, I have to leave games all of the time to find. It isn't really about your actual percent, I could care less whatever the fuck it was, I mean it as you play like that % player.

I accidentally fucked up my aka once, and nobody caught it so I think it's safe to say unless I reveal it nobody will know( I change my hokey layout so that is a waste of time). I don't care if you think I don't have another name you know me by, I just say it as I am actually a FFA player since I started playing and not a "solo" player. I don't know how to play undead in ffa, I agree with that, It is my 3rd best ffa race.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Peregrine on November 09, 2011, 10:48:08 pm

dude it doesnt matter who you are or who you think you are, the way you play right now hasnt been anything extraordinary. no one cares. if you someone else and you tell us that you have a secret name, either reveal it or you're full of shit

and if you're next response is 'in due time' or 'i dont have to tell you guys' it just means your real name either sucks, or doesnt exist.

kind of like that game Ebo keeps referencing about me but won't actually post, lol

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rsm on November 09, 2011, 11:08:42 pm

how many times do i have to reiterate, I have not been playing the race I am good with... I know my undead play is not good. I have no idea why people are saying I have been winning off good micro. I HAVE BEEN PLAYING ON A TOUCHPAD, NO MOUSE, Hopefully soon I can fix my computer and play on my mouse where I will be able to micro well.

I don't announce my real name simply because it will ruin the rep of that name, I was not so BM when i was younger :P

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Peregrine on November 09, 2011, 11:17:15 pm

either you're under.sta


or its BS

anyway ill leave it be for now. LOL at touchpad. I play with a touchpad occasionally cause i only have a laptop, and its literally impossible to win so i dunno about that

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 09, 2011, 11:49:28 pm

 i have the logs with the ips of the old fml site, could probably search based on location...
but i'm sadly not THAT bored

so for now ill trust eshan, and go with sta~

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Peregrine on November 10, 2011, 12:03:29 am

nah i did a little digging hes not Sta,

i found a thing with plzleaveduck and sta in the same tourney

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 10, 2011, 05:45:33 am

Eshan, I am obviously trolling about crunching any numbers in the M7 game.  You getting baited on my trolling every.single.time is actually getting quite hilarious.

What you didn't read is my non-troll post on luck being the #1 factor in a single game where everyone is of theoretical equal skill. Which is obviously THEORETICAL, and will never happen, unless we clone you 3 times, but then we have 4 fucking eshans to deal with and have much bigger issues than some FFA theorycrafting.

P.s. plug pull more son, mk/lich/dk vs your cheese not so ez?

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Peregrine on November 10, 2011, 06:20:34 am

so basically i called you out on your BS and you try to pass it off as trolling

you are full of shit

oh and you still wont post that game because its obvious i was gonna beat you with 10x less gold after surviving suicide hahaha

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 10, 2011, 07:11:14 am

I'll post the game soon enough son, you just wait.

Couldn't handle the FGL shame of being owned by ebo = plug pull to erase stats. GGowned.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Peregrine on November 10, 2011, 07:18:34 am

i know for a fact you wont post this game because once you do all your comments about it will look retarded -.-

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 10, 2011, 07:46:01 am

I know for a fact you pulled plug because you couldn't handle the shame of being beaten by a mentally handicapped person.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: DarKNeSSCaLLs on November 10, 2011, 09:17:48 am

Quote

so basically i called you out on your BS and you try to pass it off as trolling

Yeah he tried that on me to and failed  :icon_mrgreen:

i REALLY want to watch this replay now, too bad ebo will never post it  :icon_frown:

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 10, 2011, 09:20:16 am

I will, when the time is right. For now, I'm savoring the fact that Eshan is fuming/foaming over it knowing full well that he couldn't handle the shame of losing to me while playing cheese vs my lolwut combo.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: shiKaka on November 10, 2011, 02:41:28 pm

Quote from: rsm on November 09, 2011, 11:08:42 pm

I don't announce my real name simply because it will ruin the rep of that name, I was not so BM when i was younger :P

Duck this made me actually laugh really hard. I've known you for what, 7 years? you were more bad mannered back then compared to now. You are very moderate to what you were and i can't even begin to fathom how you would say you "weren't as bm".

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Peregrine on November 10, 2011, 03:13:31 pm

lol nah im just laughing ebro, cause you and me both know the truth about that game, and we both know why you're too bitch to post it. so just proves you're full of shit as usual =)

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 10, 2011, 03:52:14 pm

We do know the truth

You got owned by an embarrassingly bad player using embarrassingly bad combo, while you cheesed your usual cheese

Unable to accept the shame, you pulled the plug

Owned, son.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rsm on November 10, 2011, 05:49:25 pm

Ok guys, we have flamed enough on the forum( yes me included) lets cut it out of the forums. Worpex works very hard to keep this league going and he does not need us bad mannered low class people to be posting the trash we have. Regarding me, If I do end up winning this season, I will reveal the name everybody knows me as.

P.S. shikaka did rebuke tell you his old secret name. LOL you will flip the fuck out from what he did.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|WorpeX on November 10, 2011, 06:12:19 pm

#1: Thanks RSM

#2: Ugri/Renaud work harder then me. xD

#3: wtf, Shikaka knows about FML and even POSTED here? woah!

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Renaud on November 10, 2011, 06:23:56 pm

it's probably a very noobish question but... who is Shikaka?

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Murrock on November 10, 2011, 08:11:30 pm

Shikaka is smuRF's #1 fan.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: shiKaka on November 11, 2011, 11:48:46 am

mystikalsmuRF #1 Jooooon_Irenicus #2 Boeuf #3 DiZz #4

Quote from: FML|Renaud on November 10, 2011, 06:23:56 pm

it's probably a very noobish question but... who is Shikaka?

If you don't follow the team league scene at all it's not a noobish question. I was a big part of the league scene from 2006-2009 till i went on a Mormon expedition. Been back over a year now.

Quote from: FML|WorpeX on November 10, 2011, 06:12:19 pm

#3: wtf, Shikaka knows about FML and even POSTED here? woah!

For sure man, if i had the time i woulda tried to qualify this season. Going too next season i hope. BTW, need any help on the admin staff id love to pitch in. I've ALWAYS loved the FFA scene, i knew of clan Lone for years. Let's not forget that all your work is GREAT work. Except for not getting me unbanned @ WCR

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|WorpeX on November 11, 2011, 01:14:25 pm

Shikaka is a gosu admin and ran a bunch of top USA solo teams. I'm pretty sure we traded a few players at one point too when I ran Re... or maybe it was 0wN. Don't remember which. Either way, <3. Also your comment about all my work being great brought a tear to my eye. I do my best to be sure any league/tournament with my name on it is top quality and i'm glad someone notices. :D

With that said, after this season we might need another admin as Ugri has already mentioned that this one will be his last. I'll be sure to keep you in mind.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 11, 2011, 01:17:52 pm

What's ugri moving on to?

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|WorpeX on November 11, 2011, 01:18:36 pm

Twins. lol

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 11, 2011, 01:20:43 pm

Poor bastard...

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: DarKNeSSCaLLs on November 11, 2011, 02:54:27 pm

Quote from: rygorych on November 10, 2011, 09:20:16 am

I will, when the time is right. For now, I'm savoring the fact that Eshan is fuming/foaming over it knowing full well that he couldn't handle the shame of losing to me while playing cheese vs my lolwut combo.

5 Years later...

Me: Hey ebo, Warcraft 4 is coming out next year, how about posting that replay vs Eshan now?
Ebo: SOON! I WILL WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT!

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 11, 2011, 03:10:31 pm

Better late than never. Yesterday Eshan proved that he will say ANYTHING to try and manip into a win and I think that's enough ridiculing him for the week. Maybe next week, we'll see.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Mage on November 11, 2011, 03:23:05 pm

Quote from: FML|WorpeX on November 11, 2011, 01:14:25 pm

Shikaka is a gosu admin and ran a bunch of top USA solo teams. I'm pretty sure we traded a few players at one point too when I ran Re... or maybe it was 0wN.

Wtf, you ran 0wn? How on earth do I not remember you from it haha.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|WorpeX on November 11, 2011, 04:18:59 pm

Quote from: practicemage on November 11, 2011, 03:23:05 pm

Quote from: FML|WorpeX on November 11, 2011, 01:14:25 pm

Shikaka is a gosu admin and ran a bunch of top USA solo teams. I'm pretty sure we traded a few players at one point too when I ran Re... or maybe it was 0wN.

Wtf, you ran 0wn? How on earth do I not remember you from it haha.

Maybe you weren't in the clan when I was? Their really isn't any possible way to not remember otherwise, haha. This is the time period I was in it: http://z8.invisionfree.com/Clan_0wn/index.php?act=site

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|Mage on November 11, 2011, 04:29:38 pm

Yeah, I guess that's the case.  Only people I recognized from the roster were al, rifle, and guk (though I brought guk into the clan which is kinda confusing.  This must have been after then)  Was ap0c chief when you were in the clan?

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|WorpeX on November 11, 2011, 05:04:41 pm

Yeah, Guk had already been in the clan when I joined. Ap0c has always been chief as far as I know, he loved the clan. I was the league manager at that time.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Peregrine on November 11, 2011, 05:58:54 pm

lol ebo doesnt have the replay, and if he did he would never post it because it shows hes full of shit, end of story

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|WorpeX on November 11, 2011, 06:04:17 pm

Can we please stop hearing this ebo/eshan replay crap? Im pretty sure you both have argued this to death now. Im sick of hearing about how Ebo claims to have beat you and then doesn't have the replay. No one cares.

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: Rebuke[SkyNet] on November 11, 2011, 06:23:11 pm

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Clan_0wn/index.php?showtopic=18

i see myself in that roster ^^

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: rygorych on November 11, 2011, 06:48:59 pm

Quote from: Eshan on November 11, 2011, 05:58:54 pm

lol ebo doesnt have the replay, and if he did he would never post it because it shows hes full of shit, end of story

http://www.ffareplays.com/comment.php?file=Eshan%20Cheese%20Pulls%20Plug%20vs%20DK%20Lich%20MK

http://www.ffareplays.com/dl.php?file=Eshan%20Cheese%20Pulls%20Plug%20vs%20DK%20Lich%20MK.w3g

Sup?

Title: Re: Round 1 was disgraceful...
Post by: FML|WorpeX on November 11, 2011, 07:05:04 pm

Quote from: Rebuke[SkyNet] on November 11, 2011, 06:23:11 pm

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Clan_0wn/index.php?showtopic=18

i see myself in that roster ^^

cG.Tip FIGHTING! lol Weren't you double tagging with another clan at this time? haha